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Thats It I Have Had IT


Optronix
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Ok the new movie, we all know the designs are mostly unliked, well I have finally reached the breaking point. Fine put me with the rest who are complaining, and tell me to shutup but I dont care. The designs just dont work, as I have said many times, Michael Bay got realism right, only thats if the army or some other govt organization designed giant transforming robots. I have also said that I truly believe that Hasbro is being paid off majorly, these designs dont look like what Hasbro would allow. I like the alt modes, except Megatron, and I dont like the flames. My argument towards realism is that this is a race of giant robots thats been around for millions of years, within that time for as long as they knew they had the ability to transform, therefore with millions of years to become advanced I highly doubt hoses and wires would be showing. I know that they have said that its not G1 but why are we using that lineup of characters, and why are we trying to make soundwave all G1. The designs that we have seen in Masterpiece Prime and the Alternators is very realistic and would work, unless they show us what they think didnt work I wont beleive what they say. I have ranted enough discuss and go after what I have said, but its my opinion and I needed to vent.

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I perfectly understand and agree with you. But, I also understand that this is something new and something different. The characters are apparently written to be like G1 characters, and they thought about the alt modes for each character they are using. The designs are definately weird. They are nowhere near what we expected and take on a whole new level of what TFs look like. I for one may not like the designs, but I'm going to watch it for what it is, try to enjoy it, and then at least remember what the REAL TFs are.

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Man relax! These are early, early, early, early designs. There is still so much that can change from now til completion. When they start putting together what will either be or be near the final versions I'm sure they'll get a good look at how they look on screen, if it doesn't come across right then they'll keep on working until the last possible hour on getting them right.

 

It's not what we expected and my problem is that I think people were going to complain not so much because they're different, but more or less because it's not what they had in mind. Everyone wanted THEIR versions of TF's made.

 

I have no sympathy for people who can't just chill out for awhile and wait to see how things turn out. Chances are, even if the movie kicks all kinds of butt, they'll still hate it for not being what they wanted. Too bad...So sad. @screamer@

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nearly every series of TF since G1 have used G1 characters, so I don't see why the movie can't use the characters if it isn't either. unless you complain about every other series of TF that use G1 characters, you are simply illogical.

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Optronix, I feel your anger. I think the majority of fans, for once, are together in this. Even those who didn't grow up with Transformers like some of us just don't like these designs.

 

I for one hate this film, and it's look. I genuinely knew it wasn't going to be for us when Michael Bay was brought on, and every interview he took referred to it as if he knew nothing about it, or could care less. And MAYBE he didn't, but that does not excuse him in this.

 

I however, am caught in a conundrum of my own making. Conditioning myself after years of a "Gotta Catch Em All" collecting style, from G1, to G2, to Beast Wars and Machines to RID to Energon and of course Cybertron... I can't see myself intentionally boycotting this film. I've often joked that Hasbro could crap in a cardboard box, call it a Transformer and you'd have one satisfied poop-transforming fan right here.

 

And this is my crap in a box.

 

As much as I hate the film, and much as I hate the spirit behind it and the designs at the front of it... I will go see it. I may just buy it when it comes out on DVD... it depends.

 

But, the point is you are RIGHT, Optronix. This is not the film we wanted to see, and that is a shame. There isn't anything we can really do, but hope they don't do it again.

 

...

 

Actually, I'm of the chaotic mindset that I would love to see this movie do horribly and teach the thinktank behind it that messing with a classic because you want to be original is a sorrowful mistake.

 

I hope everyone at Hasbro that approved this film gets fired, too.

 

Tom

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On a side note, thanks for your support and advice. The comic book movies dont change too much, Xmen, Batman. But the best example of too much change is Catwoman, this is why we never stray from continiuity.

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Man relax! These are early, early, early, early designs. There is still so much that can change from now til completion.

 

 

I don't think they are as early as you think they are. I doubt they'll change much at all. The only hope we have of drastic change is if this is all some big red herring to cover up the real designs, but I doubt that's the case since it'd be a very expensive red herring with the full sized props and leaked Hasbro prototypes.

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On a side note, thanks for your support and advice. The comic book movies dont change too much, Xmen, Batman. But the best example of too much change is Catwoman, this is why we never stray from continiuity.

but this isn't a comic book movie. this is a movie based on a toyline with multiple different versions that are simply connected by the characters being the same, so there isn't a comparrison.

 

comic books generate a different response form people, with many of the characters being part of americana. to compare Transformers to Batman or the X-Men is ludicrous.

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Man relax! These are early, early, early, early designs. There is still so much that can change from now til completion.

 

 

I don't think they are as early as you think they are. I doubt they'll change much at all. The only hope we have of drastic change is if this is all some big red herring to cover up the real designs, but I doubt that's the case since it'd be a very expensive red herring with the full sized props and leaked Hasbro prototypes.

 

 

Well you have to consider that even the bots that they are using the full sized puppets of can STILL be manipulated and improved with CGI. There are a tremendous amount of effects that they haven't even really started on yet. Rough images are all we have to go on, and that doesn't mean squat.

 

Just because we saw toy prototypes doesn't mean anything either. I'm sure there are tons of early prototypes that we never saw over the years. Look at MP Starscream, we saw one proto then ended up with a much different looking final product.

 

These early toy prototypes are probably more or less to see if they can even make decent toys out of the designs before approving them. I'm sure Hasbro is well prepared to adjust for any changes.

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and now for the 30th topic of I hate the movie begins now. Yet you all know it'll come in number one opening weekend.

 

You think so? I wouldn't be surprised if the movie bombs, to be quite honest. When's it coming out, in the summer next year? There will be plenty of competition...

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Is Hasbro being paid off? #$### YEAH!

 

This is a HUGE project, Transformers are being geared as one of the tent pole releases for Paramount/Dreamworks, and Hasbro is fully planning a HUGE toy push.

 

The name "Transformers" will be HUGELY benefitted from the hype alone, and that hype will create more interest than any comic or cartoon series ever could.

 

A few quibbles:

1. Wires and hoses are NOT showing. I don't know what YOU are seeing, but while aesthetically different, there is not a bunch of loose ends which seem to be a common complaint.

2. These are @##@@ aliens! There is no reason why they should have to have the strictly "humanistic" proportions and facial designs we've seen in Alternators.

3. Why these characters? The same reason we have gotten Starscream, Megatron, Optimus Prime and a host of others repeatedly appear in the toyline. Trademarks and brand recognition.

 

This is a movie based on a series of toys that have had some 10 different interations in the past 22 years, who haven't had a theatrical film since 1986 (a flop at that), and are still largely considered "a cartoon" or "kids toy".

We should be damned lucky Hasbro has made as many "fan centric" items they have and somebody in Hollywood felt Transformers could reach beyond what it has traditionally been.

 

Moreover, why not post this in one of the upteenth existing threads? Because you wanted the damned attention like all the other people "fed up" with how Transformers is turning out

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Is Hasbro being paid off? #$### YEAH!

 

This is a HUGE project, Transformers are being geared as one of the tent pole releases for Paramount/Dreamworks, and Hasbro is fully planning a HUGE toy push.

 

The name "Transformers" will be HUGELY benefitted from the hype alone, and that hype will create more interest than any comic or cartoon series ever could.

 

A few quibbles:

1. Wires and hoses are NOT showing. I don't know what YOU are seeing, but while aesthetically different, there is not a bunch of loose ends which seem to be a common complaint.

2. These are @##@@ aliens! There is no reason why they should have to have the strictly "humanistic" proportions and facial designs we've seen in Alternators.

3. Why these characters? The same reason we have gotten Starscream, Megatron, Optimus Prime and a host of others repeatedly appear in the toyline. Trademarks and brand recognition.

 

This is a movie based on a series of toys that have had some 10 different interations in the past 22 years, who haven't had a theatrical film since 1986 (a flop at that), and are still largely considered "a cartoon" or "kids toy".

We should be damned lucky Hasbro has made as many "fan centric" items they have and somebody in Hollywood felt Transformers could reach beyond what it has traditionally been.

 

Moreover, why not post this in one of the upteenth existing threads? Because you wanted the damned attention like all the other people "fed up" with how Transformers is turning out

unfortunately, the logic you posses will be illegible to the whiners.

 

I can't wait for the movie to be a hit, with its hated designs which will dictate the future of Transformers--which they will obviously hate. what then will they do when they realize Transformers isn't dependent on them or the nostalgia they think dictates what the brand is.

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Okay time for some rebuttals, first the G1 use of characters, Bumblebee and Ratchet have not been in anything else but G1, G2 does not count, it was a rehash of G1, Soundwave was intended and can be included in that example.

 

Second, yes comparing this to comic book movies is valid, this fits in with a film being based off of other material, I.E. comics, video games, books, TV shows, basically anything with a fanbase.

 

Third I doubt highly that these designs will change, they say that to get us to be calm, the MP Starscream is a very rare example of a drastic mold change.

 

Fourth when hollywood makes films like this a la Spiderman, X-Men, they base them off of the first incarnation, who would go see Spiderman 2099 in theatres?

 

Am I doing this for attention no, its voicing my opinion, which I havent done at all, maybe if enough of these opinions are heard someone will wake up, but I doubt that serously.

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So we still have another whole year of these threads around here then? Sweet. I've heard of putting individual members on "ignore" but I may just cut to the chase and put the entire TF Forum out of the rotation for me...

 

Honestly, I have concerns as does every other fan but the whining is just pointless now...it's all been said 100 times over. I can only imagine how nauseating the boards at seibertron and tfans are lately...

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you guys forget that 98% of the people who will buy a ticket to this movie are not active transformers fans, they simply grew up with them at one point, and want to see the movie since we are in a retro 80's fad.

 

and thier kids will go, and thier friends kids... and your nieghbors kids..

 

with all the "wah wah" crap i bet anything this movie will be a huge smash.. unless Spiderman3 kills it, but i highly doubt it.. its called transformers.. its not a cartoon, kids and adults will see it.. wether they are hardcore fanboys or not.

 

Transformers have re-engineered thier universe for years, why does everyone get up set when a new universe is created?

because its not a cartoon with 80's buttrock for a soundtrack?

times change, conform, or be left in the dust with a dying fad.

 

hate it or not, 5$ says everyone crying about it on these forums will see it opening day.

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Well you have to consider that even the bots that they are using the full sized puppets of can STILL be manipulated and improved with CGI. There are a tremendous amount of effects that they haven't even really started on yet. Rough images are all we have to go on, and that doesn't mean squat.

 

Just because we saw toy prototypes doesn't mean anything either. I'm sure there are tons of early prototypes that we never saw over the years. Look at MP Starscream, we saw one proto then ended up with a much different looking final product.

 

These early toy prototypes are probably more or less to see if they can even make decent toys out of the designs before approving them. I'm sure Hasbro is well prepared to adjust for any changes.

 

 

CGI isn't a quick fix. Just to give you and idea the last shot of Spider-man, where he is swinging through New York and lands on the flag pole took 18 months to complete. That was around a 2 min piece of film. I have no doubt in my mind that as soon as these shots are done they are sent to ILM so they can start blocking in the robots. That being said they have to have a set desgin for each of the robots so they can be done properly. (The AICN interview actually hinted at thiswhen the interviewer saw rough animations of the robots.) If this was 2003-2004 and you we saw these, I'd agree with you that they are early and a lot can change, but since it's only 10 months till this movie hits theater I just do not think that is the case.

 

Now these desgins could be early desgins from several years back. (Again to give you idea there were rough desgins for The Phantom Menance back in 1995) But, the live action puppets/props and the Toy protos seem to be inline with the desgin astetic so I don't think that's the case. They arn't very rough either. They look like animator refrence sheets, or where at least taken from them. Refrence sheets are usually final desgins.

 

As for MP Starscream change. It was a minor change. It still pretty much looks the same, it transforms the same. I didn't even notice the change till someone pointed it out to me. So yes minor changes are possible, but in order for me to relax and not worry about it like you want me too I'd have to be sure that major desgin changes where coming, but knowing what I know about the inner working of movies I know that's not a possiblity unless as I mentioned these are a red herring or if the movie the gets pushed back another year till summer 2008.

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Don't forget, CGI technology has come a long way since the first Spiderman release. So making adjustments probably won't be as hard as it used to be. I'm not saying they can completely re-design them overnight, but either way a real looking bot on screen is going to come off a LOT differently than a 2 dimensional rendering.

 

MP Starscream is only ONE figure we've seen an early prototype for. How many TF prototypes do you think there have been over the years that we've never even seen? I'm betting a lot. I seriously doubt if they get ever figure just right the first time.

 

Just think back over the past several lines of figures. There have been A LOT of people in the fandom, myself included, who have looked at pics of upcoming figures and HATED them. I had myself hating half of the Cybertron line...HATING IT! Well it turned out to be probably my favorite line of all time. I love every figure in it, and some of those that I absolutely hated are among my favorites now. Life sure is funny that way.

 

A lot of others were much the same way. We've all seen early designs before for a figure, hated them, but came to love those figures. Now that's no guarantee this will have the same effect, but then there isn't always gurarantees in life.

 

I'm not saying I'm gonna love this movie, not saying I'm gonna hate it. When the time comes to see it, I'll buy my ticket and I'll make my decision based on the entire movie, not on knee-jerk reactions to a bunch of 2D pics that are little more than drawings at this point.

 

I've had faith enough in TF's to stick around this long and I'm still here. This time next year I'll still be here (so long as I'm still alive that is) in spite of all the negativity. If the movie is bad, I'll get over it and move on. If it is good then I'll have the luxury of laughing and saying "I told you so!" Either way, it's not going to doom my life, or make it any better. After all....it's only a movie. With or without it there will STILL be a lot of TF goodness to enjoy.

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.... I highly doubt hoses and wires would be showing. .... The designs that we have seen in Masterpiece Prime and the Alternators is very realistic and would work

 

If exposed hoses/wires is your argument, and you'd prefer a Masterpiece Prime design.... please realize Prime has EXPOSED hydraulic cylinders. :rolleyes:

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On the prototype and production design, Hasbro rarely changes the main figure once it reaches prototype stage, with computers now they can be sure a figure will work before speding money on the proto, some changes are possible but thats mostly what they will look like. I can say that the day I saw the designs I lost a huge amount of faith in this film, and I am very seriously considering not going to see it, or buy anything associated with it, again I am voicing my opinion, not whining. We were told, just told, that the production designs that were similar to the cartoons didnt look right, well until they show us why should I believe that.

 

On a side note, for all of those newer fans (I have mostly seen this on Seibertron or Tfans) I as a G1 fan, who does like the recent lines, but I prefer G1 and Beast Wars, have to say that I really do not appreciate, the newer fans calling us, "geewunners" point blank its rude, its offensive. And you know what without us "geewunners" there would be no movie, there would be nothing of TFs right now, so that really should stop, sorry if I sound pissed about that, but it is rude.

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and now for the 30th topic of I hate the movie begins now. Yet you all know it'll come in number one opening weekend.

 

 

In all fairness, earnings don't make a movie good.

 

Besides, next year it will be competing against a new Pirates movie, one of the X-Men spin-offs, and a new Harry Potter movie, so even if it is good, it will have difficult competition to deal with. A bag of cookies bets that Pirates stomps the **** out of it.

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As for MP Starscream change. It was a minor change. It still pretty much looks the same, it transforms the same. I didn't even notice the change till someone pointed it out to me. So yes minor changes are possible, but in order for me to relax and not worry about it like you want me too I'd have to be sure that major desgin changes where coming, but knowing what I know about the inner working of movies I know that's not a possiblity unless as I mentioned these are a red herring or if the movie the gets pushed back another year till summer 2008.

When a totally different and all new mold is used to replace the previously seen mold, a "minor change" doesn't begin to describe the action that's taken place.

 

 

.... I highly doubt hoses and wires would be showing. .... The designs that we have seen in Masterpiece Prime and the Alternators is very realistic and would work

 

If exposed hoses/wires is your argument, and you'd prefer a Masterpiece Prime design.... please realize Prime has EXPOSED hydraulic cylinders. :rolleyes:

More evidence to bolster the argument that I think Walky came up with: the human body itself is extremely exposed. Rather, ridiculously exposed, to tell the truth. Yet, we're actually rather durable, despite this fraility. When viewed in this light and compared to gigantic, massive metallic beings, I'd say that the Cybertronians might be ok in battle.

 

On a side note, for all of those newer fans (I have mostly seen this on Seibertron or Tfans) I as a G1 fan, who does like the recent lines, but I prefer G1 and Beast Wars, have to say that I really do not appreciate, the newer fans calling us, "geewunners" point blank its rude, its offensive. And you know what without us "geewunners" there would be no movie, there would be nothing of TFs right now, so that really should stop, sorry if I sound pissed about that, but it is rude.

Buddy, you're 19. By the time that you were born, G1 had been running for 3 years and was in the Headmasters/Targetmasters era. Were you out there importing the Predators and Turbomasters? What about European Overlord? Monster Pretenders ring a bell?

Now, I'm not saying that I kept the line alive. I'm not nearly that arrogant enough to say something like that; however, there's a big difference between picking things up when you're a kid and collecting. Don't get yourself too much credit.

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