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Thy Juggalo
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Hang in there, DarthJoe, and don't let them beat you down. Stand by your convictions. You're not in the minority.

 

 

I really don't think DarthJoe will ever have to worry about being in the minority... :rolleyes:

not like you, right belly-shirt??? i dont wanna see gay love in comics. the day i see captain america and thor making out after battle is the day i lose hope in comics. nothing against homosexuals by any means. but like joe stated i read them for escapism. i wanna get away from all the drama that goes on outside my door.

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Hang in there, DarthJoe, and don't let them beat you down. Stand by your convictions. You're not in the minority.

 

 

I really don't think DarthJoe will ever have to worry about being in the minority... :rolleyes:

not like you, right belly-shirt??? i dont wanna see gay love in comics. the day i see captain america and thor making out after battle is the day i lose hope in comics. nothing against homosexuals by any means. but like joe stated i read them for escapism. i wanna get away from all the drama that goes on outside my door.

 

 

Belly shirt, nice. #US1#

 

Your narrow definition of escapism is pretty humorous.

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There are plenty of movies with murder, rape, countless violent and cruel acts. Sins.

 

As one of the earlier posters said, these sins are not portrayed as good or normal in comics, movies or TV. The point is that many Christians see homosexuality as a sin and they don't like seeing it portrayed as normal.

 

What's happened is several of us are arguing the specifics and intent of the Bible. I, like you, feel that it should be a non-issue, but many people feel differently and that's why it is an issue.

 

In fact, many Christians ignore things that are clearly listed as sins in the Bible. Gluttony is obviously not a big concern because I see many fat people at church, but I believe that it is listed as one the seven deadly sins. Sodomy among straight Christians is also ignored, but I guarantee that most engage in oral sex with their spouses and many probably engage in anal sex from time to time - both are considered sodomy. Maybe it’s ignored because your sexual activity is nobody’s business – that is unless it’s gay sexual activity – then it matters. Every Christian lies and that is obviously forbidden.

 

All sins are equal in God's eyes, but many Christians insist on making the sin of homosexuality a big issue. Personally, as a Christian, I think the passages condemning homosexuality are speaking more about lust than the act itself. Back in the day, it's unlikely that they could not conceive of a homosexual relationship as we think of them today so it was assumed that the act was one of sexual depravity, which is forbidden in the Bible in any form.

 

Don't forget it is also a sin to judge others. So, for those who have a problem with homosexuality and think it is a sin, let the big man judge them in whether or not being gay is a sin rather than really caring about it.

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I would just like to point out...leave the religious aspect out of this, for the sake of the topic staying open, isn't it against the rules or something? (if it is, im very glad)

 

Gladly...but when I state my moral opinion on something that stems from my religious beliefs, and someone questions, tries to belittle, or downgrade my opinion with "open your mind," as if I don't have the capabilty of thinking for myself due to blinded hatred, I'm more than willing to give them my point of view with the same abruptness that they approached me.

 

Hang in there, DarthJoe, and don't let them beat you down. Stand by your convictions. You're not in the minority.

 

Whether or not Joe is in the minority, I don't know. My opinion is that people like Joe are slowly changing their minds about he issue, especially in today's youth. Read Joe's posts and the responses to his posts. He stands by his convictions, but I do think they can be rather hypocritical. Nobody is beating anybody else down, we're all simply stating our opinions on the matter.

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Y'know, it's not the desire not to see homosexual situations in a comic book for whatever reason that a person may have, be it for religious reasons or whatnot, but the need to boycott a comic because of the "apparent gay agenda that takes place" in said comic, despite not really having any knowledge of it actually taking place outside of allegations. It's kind of....well....extremely myopic.

 

Also, if certain comics are avoided for lesbian or gay characters, then shouldn't ones that have bisexual or transgender people as well fall under this banner? After all, they have "layed in bed with [someone of their own gender]", thus equating the similarity to homosexuality. If so, then a list would be:

 

Marvel

Marvel Knights Spiderman, Amazing Spiderman, Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman

New Avengers(at least during the Breakout arc)

New X-Men

1602

X-Statix

Ultimate X-Men

X-Men

Great Lakes Avengers

Any comics with the possibilities of the Heralds of Galactus

Young Avengers

Runaways

Incredible Hulk

Captain Marvel

Avengers and West Coast Avengers from 1990 on

Infinity anything

Anything with Northstar in it, which includes all mainline X-books, along with Wolverine(third series)

Skrull Kill Krew

The Shinobi Shaw issues of Uncanny X-Men and X-Men

Past issues of Exiles

New Mutants

 

DC

52

Superman, Action Comics

Green Lantern(Kyle Rayner era)

Watchmen

Catwoman

Birds of Prey

Legion of Super Heroes

Secret Six

Infinity Inc.

Manhunter

JSA

Seven Soldiers

The Flash

Batman

Detective Comics

Gotham Central

Justice League International

Supergirl(Peter David)

Starman

 

Vertigo

Lucifer

Swamp Thing

Hellblazer

Preacher

The Invisibles

Doom Patrol

The Sandman

Shade, the Changing Man

 

Wildstorm

The Authority

Stormwatch(Ellis era)

Gen13

 

Independents

Love and Rockets

Locas

Strangers in Paradise

Scott Pilgrim

 

Wow, that's a lot of fun taken out of the comics world.

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There are plenty of movies with murder, rape, countless violent and cruel acts. Sins.

 

As one of the earlier posters said, these sins are not portrayed as good or normal in comics, movies or TV. The point is that many Christians see homosexuality as a sin and they don't like seeing it portrayed as normal.

 

What's happened is several of us are arguing the specifics and intent of the Bible. I, like you, feel that it should be a non-issue, but many people feel differently and that's why it is an issue.

 

In fact, many Christians ignore things that are clearly listed as sins in the Bible. Gluttony is obviously not a big concern because I see many fat people at church, but I believe that it is listed as one the seven deadly sins. Sodomy among straight Christians is also ignored, but I guarantee that most engage in oral sex with their spouses and many probably engage in anal sex from time to time - both are considered sodomy. Maybe it’s ignored because your sexual activity is nobody’s business – that is unless it’s gay sexual activity – then it matters. Every Christian lies and that is obviously forbidden.

 

All sins are equal in God's eyes, but many Christians insist on making the sin of homosexuality a big issue. Personally, as a Christian, I think the passages condemning homosexuality are speaking more about lust than the act itself. Back in the day, it's unlikely that they could not conceive of a homosexual relationship as we think of them today so it was assumed that the act was one of sexual depravity, which is forbidden in the Bible in any form.

 

Don't forget it is also a sin to judge others. So, for those who have a problem with homosexuality and think it is a sin, let the big man judge them in whether or not being gay is a sin rather than really caring about it.

Man cannot and should not judge. But the Holy Bible can and does. Everyone has an opinion and typing it on a message board isn't going to convince someone to change theirs. This will just continue to go in circles.

FINAL THOUGHT:

I will not purchase any comics(I dont anyways) or figures of any characters that are portrayed to be gay. That is my choice. If you don't like it oh well...

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Wait I have a question...if comics are read for "escapism" than why are so many putting their "real world" moral judgements on them.....my head hurts on that....it's just that ...I...never...saw...someone....become homosexual or start to condone it by reading a......comic (but please take what I say with a grain of salt...I've obviouly been brainwashed by the "AGENDA" that gets in your pores when you read Young Avengers. Guys, to say love the sin not the sinner is the biggest pile of horse poo ever. That's like saying to a Black/Asain, Latino person "I like you but I don't like your color/culture". You cannot seperate homosexuality from the person!!! It's who they are and like any other race they should be respected regardless!!!! I can guarantee if you did a poll no one would say "I decided to be gay because I wanted to be disowned by my family, beaten up, terrorized and basically told by bible thumping people that I'm evil and an abomination and my soul will burn forever." Either you accept someone ALL they way or not at all...if you believe otherwise what a great "friend" you must be. God forbid one of your gay "friends" (isn't it funny how people like to throw in they have gay/black/special needs friends right after they have spewed some kind of bigoted nonsense?) was ever the victim of violence...you probably say you were sorry for their pain but they bought it on themselves for being sinners @smilepunch@ . Thanx but no thanx...Joe you still (unless I feel asleep during one of your sermons) haven't informed us just what Young Avengers agenda really is.....still glad to see this debate going though #US1#

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:OT: Why is it that the people in this forum can't stay on topic when we converse about gay characters? The last time we all talked about Colossus being gay, but then started argueing on our stand in the topic of homosexuality. I think that everyone just needs to keep their opinion on this subject to themselves for it is too much of a touchy subject and biblical and political arguements are already in progress in this topic. I have nothing against anyone but feel it could be for the best. #US1#

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Wait I have a question...if comics are read for "escapism" than why are so many putting their "real world" moral judgements on them.....my head hurts on that....it's just that ...I...never...saw...someone....become homosexual or start to condone it by reading a......comic (but please take what I say with a grain of salt...I've obviouly been brainwashed by the "AGENDA" that gets in your pores when you read Young Avengers. Guys, to say love the sin not the sinner is the biggest pile of horse poo ever. That's like saying to a Black/Asain, Latino person "I like you but I don't like your color/culture". You cannot seperate homosexuality from the person!!! It's who they are and like any other race they should be respected regardless!!!! I can guarantee if you did a poll no one would say "I decided to be gay because I wanted to be disowned by my family, beaten up, terrorized and basically told by bible thumping people that I'm evil and an abomination and my soul will burn forever." Either you accept someone ALL they way or not at all...if you believe otherwise what a great "friend" you must be. God forbid one of your gay "friends" (isn't it funny how people like to throw in they have gay/black/special needs friends right after they have spewed some kind of bigoted nonsense?) was ever the victim of violence...you probably say you were sorry for their pain but they bought it on themselves for being sinners @smilepunch@ . Thanx but no thanx...Joe you still (unless I feel asleep during one of your sermons) haven't informed us just what Young Avengers agenda really is.....still glad to see this debate going though #US1#

 

 

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There are plenty of movies with murder, rape, countless violent and cruel acts. Sins.

 

As one of the earlier posters said, these sins are not portrayed as good or normal in comics, movies or TV. The point is that many Christians see homosexuality as a sin and they don't like seeing it portrayed as normal.

 

What's happened is several of us are arguing the specifics and intent of the Bible. I, like you, feel that it should be a non-issue, but many people feel differently and that's why it is an issue.

 

In fact, many Christians ignore things that are clearly listed as sins in the Bible. Gluttony is obviously not a big concern because I see many fat people at church, but I believe that it is listed as one the seven deadly sins. Sodomy among straight Christians is also ignored, but I guarantee that most engage in oral sex with their spouses and many probably engage in anal sex from time to time - both are considered sodomy. Maybe it’s ignored because your sexual activity is nobody’s business – that is unless it’s gay sexual activity – then it matters. Every Christian lies and that is obviously forbidden.

 

All sins are equal in God's eyes, but many Christians insist on making the sin of homosexuality a big issue. Personally, as a Christian, I think the passages condemning homosexuality are speaking more about lust than the act itself. Back in the day, it's unlikely that they could not conceive of a homosexual relationship as we think of them today so it was assumed that the act was one of sexual depravity, which is forbidden in the Bible in any form.

 

Don't forget it is also a sin to judge others. So, for those who have a problem with homosexuality and think it is a sin, let the big man judge them in whether or not being gay is a sin rather than really caring about it.

Man cannot and should not judge. But the Holy Bible can and does. Everyone has an opinion and typing it on a message board isn't going to convince someone to change theirs. This will just continue to go in circles.

FINAL THOUGHT:

I will not purchase any comics(I dont anyways) or figures of any characters that are portrayed to be gay. That is my choice. If you don't like it oh well...

 

The same goes for you then. I wasn't convincing people to accept homosexuality and buy the books. I was merely expressing my opinion on the matter. I can't be allowed to express my opinion if it is different than yours, therefore it is considered me convincing someone of my opinion? You have to accept my opinion as well. It works both way. If you don't like gay characters in comics, don't rant about it here since you are going to have other people express their different opinions on it. We are going to have a conflicting argument in message boards no matter what the thing is. Whether it is the look of a new toy to how a character is protrayed in the media, there is going to be arguments. You have to expect that from a message board that has people from different cultures and backgrounds. If you don't like the book for having gay people, don't buy it and don't whine about it unless you want to get into a debate. Debates are fine as long as you don't flame on another and such. It is an opportuney to understand that everyone is different. Bottom Line, no one is telling you to express your emotions about gay people. If you have a problem with it, fine. Whatever. It strikes me curious of why you are in such a topic if you don't collect comics.

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There are plenty of movies with murder, rape, countless violent and cruel acts. Sins.

 

As one of the earlier posters said, these sins are not portrayed as good or normal in comics, movies or TV. The point is that many Christians see homosexuality as a sin and they don't like seeing it portrayed as normal.

 

What's happened is several of us are arguing the specifics and intent of the Bible. I, like you, feel that it should be a non-issue, but many people feel differently and that's why it is an issue.

 

In fact, many Christians ignore things that are clearly listed as sins in the Bible. Gluttony is obviously not a big concern because I see many fat people at church, but I believe that it is listed as one the seven deadly sins. Sodomy among straight Christians is also ignored, but I guarantee that most engage in oral sex with their spouses and many probably engage in anal sex from time to time - both are considered sodomy. Maybe it’s ignored because your sexual activity is nobody’s business – that is unless it’s gay sexual activity – then it matters. Every Christian lies and that is obviously forbidden.

 

All sins are equal in God's eyes, but many Christians insist on making the sin of homosexuality a big issue. Personally, as a Christian, I think the passages condemning homosexuality are speaking more about lust than the act itself. Back in the day, it's unlikely that they could not conceive of a homosexual relationship as we think of them today so it was assumed that the act was one of sexual depravity, which is forbidden in the Bible in any form.

 

Don't forget it is also a sin to judge others. So, for those who have a problem with homosexuality and think it is a sin, let the big man judge them in whether or not being gay is a sin rather than really caring about it.

Man cannot and should not judge. But the Holy Bible can and does. Everyone has an opinion and typing it on a message board isn't going to convince someone to change theirs. This will just continue to go in circles.

FINAL THOUGHT:

I will not purchase any comics(I dont anyways) or figures of any characters that are portrayed to be gay. That is my choice. If you don't like it oh well...

 

The same goes for you then. I wasn't convincing people to accept homosexuality and buy the books. I was merely expressing my opinion on the matter. I can't be allowed to express my opinion if it is different than yours, therefore it is considered me convincing someone of my opinion? You have to accept my opinion as well. It works both way. If you don't like gay characters in comics, don't rant about it here since you are going to have other people express their different opinions on it. We are going to have a conflicting argument in message boards no matter what the thing is. Whether it is the look of a new toy to how a character is protrayed in the media, there is going to be arguments. You have to expect that from a message board that has people from different cultures and backgrounds. If you don't like the book for having gay people, don't buy it and don't whine about it unless you want to get into a debate. Debates are fine as long as you don't flame on another and such. It is an opportuney to understand that everyone is different. Bottom Line, no one is telling you to express your emotions about gay people. If you have a problem with it, fine. Whatever. It strikes me curious of why you are in such a topic if you don't collect comics.

Because this is Marvel TOYS. @loll@

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:OT: Why is it that the people in this forum can't stay on topic when we converse about gay characters? The last time we all talked about Colossus being gay, but then started argueing on our stand in the topic of homosexuality. I think that everyone just needs to keep their opinion on this subject to themselves for it is too much of a touchy subject and biblical and political arguements are already in progress in this topic. I have nothing against anyone but feel it could be for the best. #US1#

 

I've put little tidbits about Hulking and Asgardian and in some of my posts. I didn't want to spoilt too much about the characters. I've stated a couple of times that Hulkling isn't gay, it just hasn't been discussed yet. Oh well, this topic is very interesting to me and has been an ongoing debate since Hulkling and Wiccan were discovered to be in a relationship. It's gotten some people very excited and others very scared.

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Wait I have a question...if comics are read for "escapism" than why are so many putting their "real world" moral judgements on them.....my head hurts on that....it's just that ...I...never...saw...someone....become homosexual or start to condone it by reading a......comic (but please take what I say with a grain of salt...I've obviouly been brainwashed by the "AGENDA" that gets in your pores when you read Young Avengers....Joe you still (unless I feel asleep during one of your sermons) haven't informed us just what Young Avengers agenda really is.....still glad to see this debate going though #US1#

 

If you cast aside all of your moral judgements for the sake of entertainment, then why bother having morals or beliefs to begin with?

 

Since I've never read the comics, I can't say for certain why the creators of the New Avengers would choose to make two of the main characters gay, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't just because there are gay people in the real world, or that the storyline just happened to work out that way. An author of any sort of literature incorperates his own beliefs into his work, either consciously or subconsciously, and there is always a reason for it. I would guess, in the case of the New Avengers, it's to portray homosexuality as something that is acceptable, and even moral...which I've already stated I don't agree with, and have also given my reasons as to why.

 

I'm not trying to suggest that the author is attempting to brainwash heterosexuals into being homosexuals, but the entertainment industry has definately been doing it's part to assimilate homosexuality into our culture over the last ten years or so. We have been bombarded with television shows about homosexuality, such as Will & Grace, Queer Eye For The Straight Guy, and Queer As Folk, and even shows that are not based solely around homosexuality, like Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Dawson's Creek, have introduced gay or lesbian characters. Two years ago, the media seemed to be hung on gay rights, and it seemed that nearly every news show you turned to, was comparing the gay movement to racial and gender civil rights. It has cumulatively helped to push homosexuality further and further into normalcy, and I don't wish to partake in it as something I'm morally against, even when it comes to something as insignificant as purchasing a comic book that contains gay characters.

 

It doesn't just stop with homosexuality either. We have shows like Sex In The City and Desperate Housewives glorifying adultery, sexual promiscuity, and doing anything but promoting a loving, monogamous marriage. Our society has embraced the idea that masturbation and sexual experimentation out of wedlock are healthy forms of sexual growth. Music like rap and pop are rampant with sexual sin. Magazines like Cosmo have stories printed on the cover, like "Five Ways To Cheat and Not Get Caught" on them. Then we wonder what has happened to our society's familty structure, and why there is such a high divorce rate. We are raised thinking that there is nothing wrong with throwing sex around like it's a frisbee, and our children are suffering, through the form of divorce, because of it.

 

I've come to a point in my life that I'm very careful about what I take in when it comes to these issues, as it does nothing but pollute your mind with thoughts and ideals that are ripping away the morals of our country.

 

Guys, to say love the sin not the sinner is the biggest pile of horse poo ever. That's like saying to a Black/Asain, Latino person "I like you but I don't like your color/culture". You cannot seperate homosexuality from the person!!! It's who they are and like any other race they should be respected regardless!!!! I can guarantee if you did a poll no one would say "I decided to be gay because I wanted to be disowned by my family, beaten up, terrorized and basically told by bible thumping people that I'm evil and an abomination and my soul will burn forever." Either you accept someone ALL they way or not at all...if you believe otherwise what a great "friend" you must be.

 

race:

 

1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

3. A genealogical line; a lineage.

 

Sexual orientation is not a qualifying factor for being classified as a race. But that's a non-issue, and I'm just being nit-picky now. Anyways...

I don't think I have a friend that doesn't do, or believe in something, that I don't think is right. However, they're still my friend, and I still love them as such.

 

I'm not sure if you consider yourself Christian or not, but for the sake of argument, let's say you don't, and that you disagree with many of Christianity's teachings. Would you be able to have friendships with people who were Christian, even though you, youself, were against it? If so, how would that be any different than someone who is against homosexuality having a gay friend? Or, do you only associate with people who have the exact same beliefs, morals, opinions, and interests as yourself?

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The difference is religion is a choice, sexuality is something a person is born with. But we know you don't believe that, so whatever. I think it's funny that some people who think sexuality is a choice haven't had to deal with their sexuality (homo- vs hetero-) as if it were a choice. They didn't choose to be straight. People don't choose to be gay.

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The difference is religion is a choice, sexuality is something a person is born with. But we know you don't believe that, so whatever. I think it's funny that some people who think sexuality is a choice haven't had to deal with their sexuality (homo- vs hetero-) as if it were a choice. They didn't choose to be straight. People don't choose to be gay.

 

We had a gay guy come to our church about a year and a half ago. God filled him with the Holy Spirit evident by the speaking of other tongues. He was baptized in Jesus name and to this day hasn't wanted another man. He says he was healed.

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God himself came to my church last week and said he loves homosexuals just as much as the rest of his children. Of course this confused me as I'm not even sure whether to believe in god, what with being agnostic and all.

 

Man, that was a wacky ole day.

 

And I'm not really sure about this, but wouldn't collecting action figures (especially those who are very passionate about it) kind of fall under the whole worshiping false idols thing? I dunno.

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God himself came to my church last week and said he loves homosexuals just as much as the rest of his children. Of course this confused me as I'm not even sure whether to believe in god, what with being agnostic and all.

 

Man, that was a wacky ole day.

 

And I'm not really sure about this, but wouldn't collecting action figures (especially those who are very passionate about it) kind of fall under the whole worshiping false idols thing? I dunno.

 

No

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SUCH an interesting thread and it was doing so well until we went to the "belly shirt" comment. Once it goes to name-calling you obviously can't come up with something more compelling to use to state your point of view.

 

Anyway I only have these questions:

 

What is the supposed "agenda" that is being pushed?

Is it to convince more people to "choose" to be gay? Is it to convince people to merely accept homosexuality as not being wrong/a sin?

If you are so solid in your beliefs and a comic book will not change them, then is the agenda really that threatening to the point where you won't buy/read it?

If there is no kissing or sex being portrayed, then how is it REALLY pushing the agenda? By endorsing simple tolerance?

 

And in a slightly different vein:

Has a comic book ever had a teammate of a gay hero disprove of their orientation?

 

 

The only agenda in the comic book industry is to SELL MORE COMIC BOOKS. I doubt that the writers meeting contains a table full of "belly shirt-wearing queens" who are sipping their chocolate-tinis and giggling furiously over how to turn young children gay. To sell comic books they need to appeal to as many DIVERSE readers as there are. Just lately in the last few years are they trying to appeal to the (already) gay readership as a way of putting more money in their pockets. It's a BUSINESS agenda not a gay agenda. That's what I think has gotten lost in all this discussion. And if you insist it is some gay agenda, and you are firm in your beliefs, then what does it matter if you read the book? Skip the Hulkling/Wiccan panels in the issue. Really, I could care less if you read the title, I just don't see what it's accomplishing to NOT read it.

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The difference is religion is a choice, sexuality is something a person is born with. But we know you don't believe that, so whatever. I think it's funny that some people who think sexuality is a choice haven't had to deal with their sexuality (homo- vs hetero-) as if it were a choice. They didn't choose to be straight. People don't choose to be gay.

 

We had a gay guy come to our church about a year and a half ago. God filled him with the Holy Spirit evident by the speaking of other tongues. He was baptized in Jesus name and to this day hasn't wanted another man. He says he was healed.

 

 

There are so many reasons this could be happening. Believe me, this man is still 100% gay but he's suppressing a lot. (I've seen it happen so many times.) This man might be able to live a heterosexual life if he wants it enough, and tries hard enough, but deep down he still craves the D. His fear of burning in hell, and I wonder what type of people could instill that fear in someone, has him so paranoid he's probably trying very, very hard to be a straight man.

 

I just hope for the sake of his mental stability he doesn't try to marry and have children because that's going to be disastrous on so many levels.

 

But no, he hasn't been "healed" because he never had a disease. He's pretending to be "normal" to conform to the societal norms set upon him by individuals telling him he's a monster.

 

 

Edit: Check out my new signature!

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