Dick VS Jason

[OmegaHarbinger]

Well I'm loving this new series of Nightwing, and think its a real interesting storyline. OmegaHarbringer, you stated that Jason looked old in Hush but if I remember correctly that was Clayface. Just thought you should know.

 

I didn't state Jason looked old in Hush. Regardless, you're wrong and obviously haven't read Batman Annual #25. When Jeph Loeb wrote Hush, it was quickly revealed that the person who appeared to be Jason was Clayface. Later on when Judd Winick and other wellknown DC writers were brainstorming the events leading up to Countdown to Infinite Crisis, he realized it was a perfect opportunity to return Jason Todd to life.

 

Since the idea of Batman encountering a fake adult Jason and the real adult Jason within the span of a few issues would be an odd coincidence, Mr. Winnick suggested that some pages from Hush did indeed feature Jason while others depicted Clayface impersonating Jason. However, they looked 100% identical. So Jeph Loeb is retroactively responsible for bringing Jason back to life even though he didn't plan for it to be authentic.

[snakeplissken]

After reading the Annual I was left pretty disatisfied.. I understand that the editors wanted to mix up the DC universe but Jason is just a weird character and his development has been awkward.. is he back, is he not, oh he's back.. lets make him cool. It just seems like DC couldn't decide on how to treat Jasons character which is fine but now that they've made him a pretty big player again they really need to get the story straight. The annual was a pretty weak story on the how's and why's of Jasons escape from death.

 

No offense, but you obviously didn't pay very close attention while reading Batman Annual #25. Jason absolutely has aged and he was not resurrected by a Lazarus pit so that's a moot point. It played an important role in his missing years but Superboy Prime is completely responsible for Jason being alive again. That's his origin. It's no more far fetched than a guy clinging to walls after being bitten by a spider.

 

 

The whole origin is far fetched in my opinion.. I never compared Jason Todd to some of Marvels crazy origins.. usually within the Batman story line the characters have a somewhat logical story line.. the Jason Todd origin was rushed, not played out very well and very weak. There is no way you can admit that within one issue DC satisfied every question you may have about I did read the issue several times so don't bother telling me I didn't read it very closely.. the story doesn't make sense and it is truly out of place within the current Batman universe. The character stinks, his story stinks and he should just go back in the grave.

 

 

 

I said you didn't read the Annual closely because you made 2 major assumptions about Judd's plot that were completely wrong. What gave you the idea that Jason hadn't aged? He's not a boy anymore which is why he looked like an adult in Hush. What gave you the idea that he was resurrected by a Lazarus pit? That makes no sense at all because the story depicts him alive for numerous pages before he even approaches one.

 

 

In this paragraph you stated it ,alright. I know they look identical. You said it was Todd by the way you wrote your response and I thought it would be nice to correct you, because it was Clayface not Todd in Hush. Question though, you say that Winnick suggested that in some pages Todd was Todd, not Clayface, but Jason came out only once in the book and it was Clayface. Where else did Todd come out?

[OmegaHarbinger]

After reading the Annual I was left pretty disatisfied.. I understand that the editors wanted to mix up the DC universe but Jason is just a weird character and his development has been awkward.. is he back, is he not, oh he's back.. lets make him cool. It just seems like DC couldn't decide on how to treat Jasons character which is fine but now that they've made him a pretty big player again they really need to get the story straight. The annual was a pretty weak story on the how's and why's of Jasons escape from death.

 

No offense, but you obviously didn't pay very close attention while reading Batman Annual #25. Jason absolutely has aged and he was not resurrected by a Lazarus pit so that's a moot point. It played an important role in his missing years but Superboy Prime is completely responsible for Jason being alive again. That's his origin. It's no more far fetched than a guy clinging to walls after being bitten by a spider.

 

 

The whole origin is far fetched in my opinion.. I never compared Jason Todd to some of Marvels crazy origins.. usually within the Batman story line the characters have a somewhat logical story line.. the Jason Todd origin was rushed, not played out very well and very weak. There is no way you can admit that within one issue DC satisfied every question you may have about I did read the issue several times so don't bother telling me I didn't read it very closely.. the story doesn't make sense and it is truly out of place within the current Batman universe. The character stinks, his story stinks and he should just go back in the grave.

 

 

 

I said you didn't read the Annual closely because you made 2 major assumptions about Judd's plot that were completely wrong. What gave you the idea that Jason hadn't aged? He's not a boy anymore which is why he looked like an adult in Hush. What gave you the idea that he was resurrected by a Lazarus pit? That makes no sense at all because the story depicts him alive for numerous pages before he even approaches one.

 

 

In this paragraph you stated it ,alright. I know they look identical. You said it was Todd by the way you wrote your resonse and I thought it would be nice to correct you.

 

I _NEVER_ said anything remotely like that in the article you just quoted. I said "he looked like an adult in Hush" which is true. That had nothing to do with Clayface. You haven't read Batman Annual #25. I have. Jason's adult appearance was due to the Superboy Prime's tantrum reviving him several months after his death. It wasn't a recent development. So keep dreaming that you'll ever get the opportunity to correct me, you pathetic liar.

[snakeplissken]

After reading the Annual I was left pretty disatisfied.. I understand that the editors wanted to mix up the DC universe but Jason is just a weird character and his development has been awkward.. is he back, is he not, oh he's back.. lets make him cool. It just seems like DC couldn't decide on how to treat Jasons character which is fine but now that they've made him a pretty big player again they really need to get the story straight. The annual was a pretty weak story on the how's and why's of Jasons escape from death.

 

No offense, but you obviously didn't pay very close attention while reading Batman Annual #25. Jason absolutely has aged and he was not resurrected by a Lazarus pit so that's a moot point. It played an important role in his missing years but Superboy Prime is completely responsible for Jason being alive again. That's his origin. It's no more far fetched than a guy clinging to walls after being bitten by a spider.

 

 

The whole origin is far fetched in my opinion.. I never compared Jason Todd to some of Marvels crazy origins.. usually within the Batman story line the characters have a somewhat logical story line.. the Jason Todd origin was rushed, not played out very well and very weak. There is no way you can admit that within one issue DC satisfied every question you may have about I did read the issue several times so don't bother telling me I didn't read it very closely.. the story doesn't make sense and it is truly out of place within the current Batman universe. The character stinks, his story stinks and he should just go back in the grave.

 

 

 

I said you didn't read the Annual closely because you made 2 major assumptions about Judd's plot that were completely wrong. What gave you the idea that Jason hadn't aged? He's not a boy anymore which is why he looked like an adult in Hush. What gave you the idea that he was resurrected by a Lazarus pit? That makes no sense at all because the story depicts him alive for numerous pages before he even approaches one.

 

 

In this paragraph you stated it ,alright. I know they look identical. You said it was Todd by the way you wrote your resonse and I thought it would be nice to correct you.

 

I _NEVER_ said anything remotely like that in the article you just quoted. So keep dreaming that you'll ever get the opportunity to correct me, you pathetic liar.

Jeez man, calm down, I'm not even harassing you. But you did say this in one of your earlier posts. Just calm down.

[OmegaHarbinger]

After reading the Annual I was left pretty disatisfied.. I understand that the editors wanted to mix up the DC universe but Jason is just a weird character and his development has been awkward.. is he back, is he not, oh he's back.. lets make him cool. It just seems like DC couldn't decide on how to treat Jasons character which is fine but now that they've made him a pretty big player again they really need to get the story straight. The annual was a pretty weak story on the how's and why's of Jasons escape from death.

 

No offense, but you obviously didn't pay very close attention while reading Batman Annual #25. Jason absolutely has aged and he was not resurrected by a Lazarus pit so that's a moot point. It played an important role in his missing years but Superboy Prime is completely responsible for Jason being alive again. That's his origin. It's no more far fetched than a guy clinging to walls after being bitten by a spider.

 

 

The whole origin is far fetched in my opinion.. I never compared Jason Todd to some of Marvels crazy origins.. usually within the Batman story line the characters have a somewhat logical story line.. the Jason Todd origin was rushed, not played out very well and very weak. There is no way you can admit that within one issue DC satisfied every question you may have about I did read the issue several times so don't bother telling me I didn't read it very closely.. the story doesn't make sense and it is truly out of place within the current Batman universe. The character stinks, his story stinks and he should just go back in the grave.

 

 

 

I said you didn't read the Annual closely because you made 2 major assumptions about Judd's plot that were completely wrong. What gave you the idea that Jason hadn't aged? He's not a boy anymore which is why he looked like an adult in Hush. What gave you the idea that he was resurrected by a Lazarus pit? That makes no sense at all because the story depicts him alive for numerous pages before he even approaches one.

 

 

In this paragraph you stated it ,alright. I know they look identical. You said it was Todd by the way you wrote your resonse and I thought it would be nice to correct you.

 

I _NEVER_ said anything remotely like that in the article you just quoted. So keep dreaming that you'll ever get the opportunity to correct me, you pathetic liar.

Jeez man, calm down, I'm not even harassing you. But you did say this in one of your earlier posts. Just calm down.

 

I did *NOT* say that, you lying piece of trash. Apparently, you're too stupid to understand basic sentences.

[snakeplissken]

After reading the Annual I was left pretty disatisfied.. I understand that the editors wanted to mix up the DC universe but Jason is just a weird character and his development has been awkward.. is he back, is he not, oh he's back.. lets make him cool. It just seems like DC couldn't decide on how to treat Jasons character which is fine but now that they've made him a pretty big player again they really need to get the story straight. The annual was a pretty weak story on the how's and why's of Jasons escape from death.

 

No offense, but you obviously didn't pay very close attention while reading Batman Annual #25. Jason absolutely has aged and he was not resurrected by a Lazarus pit so that's a moot point. It played an important role in his missing years but Superboy Prime is completely responsible for Jason being alive again. That's his origin. It's no more far fetched than a guy clinging to walls after being bitten by a spider.

 

 

The whole origin is far fetched in my opinion.. I never compared Jason Todd to some of Marvels crazy origins.. usually within the Batman story line the characters have a somewhat logical story line.. the Jason Todd origin was rushed, not played out very well and very weak. There is no way you can admit that within one issue DC satisfied every question you may have about I did read the issue several times so don't bother telling me I didn't read it very closely.. the story doesn't make sense and it is truly out of place within the current Batman universe. The character stinks, his story stinks and he should just go back in the grave.

 

 

 

I said you didn't read the Annual closely because you made 2 major assumptions about Judd's plot that were completely wrong. What gave you the idea that Jason hadn't aged? He's not a boy anymore which is why he looked like an adult in Hush. What gave you the idea that he was resurrected by a Lazarus pit? That makes no sense at all because the story depicts him alive for numerous pages before he even approaches one.

 

 

In this paragraph you stated it ,alright. I know they look identical. You said it was Todd by the way you wrote your resonse and I thought it would be nice to correct you.

 

I _NEVER_ said anything remotely like that in the article you just quoted. So keep dreaming that you'll ever get the opportunity to correct me, you pathetic liar.

Jeez man, calm down, I'm not even harassing you. But you did say this in one of your earlier posts. Just calm down.

 

I did *NOT* say that, you lying piece of trash. Apparently, you're too stupid to understand basic sentences.

Man, you call me trash, harass me, then threaten me with reporting my responses? You were wrong one time, and you go off like a Christmas tree. You always get what you want you brat?

[OmegaHarbinger]

Man, you call me trash, harass me, then threaten me with reporting my responses? You were wrong one time, and you go off like a Christmas tree. You always get what you want you brat?

 

As I just clearly stated, I did *NOT* say that and I am *NOT* wrong about anything here. It's not my fault that you're unable to read and you bet I'll be angry when I'm corrected by someone as clueless as yourself. By the way, you're a complete hypocrite too to say that I'm harrassing you.

[snakeplissken]

Man, you call me trash, harass me, then threaten me with reporting my responses? You were wrong one time, and you go off like a Christmas tree. You always get what you want you brat?

 

As I just clearly stated, I did *NOT* say that and I am *NOT* wrong about anything here. It's not my fault that you're unable to read and you bet I'll be angry when I'm corrected by someone as clueless as yourself.

@loll@ @loll@ @loll@

I'm sorry, but you are the only clueless one here.

[OmegaHarbinger]

Man, you call me trash, harass me, then threaten me with reporting my responses? You were wrong one time, and you go off like a Christmas tree. You always get what you want you brat?

 

As I just clearly stated, I did *NOT* say that and I am *NOT* wrong about anything here. It's not my fault that you're unable to read and you bet I'll be angry when I'm corrected by someone as clueless as yourself.

@loll@ @loll@ @loll@

I'm sorry, but you are the only clueless one here.

 

Nope. I'm hardly clueless and a moderator has already been contacted, liar. Go read Batman Annual #25 already and quit pretending you know what you're talking about.

[snakeplissken]

Man, you call me trash, harass me, then threaten me with reporting my responses? You were wrong one time, and you go off like a Christmas tree. You always get what you want you brat?

 

As I just clearly stated, I did *NOT* say that and I am *NOT* wrong about anything here. It's not my fault that you're unable to read and you bet I'll be angry when I'm corrected by someone as clueless as yourself.

@loll@ @loll@ @loll@

I'm sorry, but you are the only clueless one here.

 

Nope. I'm hardly clueless and a moderator has already been contacted. Go read Batman Annual #25 already and quit pretending you know what you're talking about.

It's pretty funny because you started this whole mess. @smilepunch@

[OmegaHarbinger]

It's pretty funny because you started this whole mess. @smilepunch@

 

I guess you find your own stupidity to be pretty funny. I just find it sad. As your latest replies indicate, you're a clown always laughing at people and unable to grasp why people then dislike you. I definitely did not start this but I'm not immature enough to follow you around and pick your posts apart especially over imaginary mistakes. The same can't be said for you. My facts are NOT wrong and I did NOT say Jason looked old. Anyone with a working brain can see that.

[snakeplissken]

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

[OmegaHarbinger]

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

 

Nope, I'm not in trouble just because you're an incorrigible liar. By the way, your status as a liar is rooted in fact while your opinion that my posts are both idiotic and negative is subjective. You can't be reprimanded for using a grammatically correct word when it's the only one appropriate. However, there's no excuse for calling someone's responses idiotic. That'll get you banned.

[snakeplissken]

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

 

Nope, I'm not in trouble just because you're an incorrigible liar.

Keep on editing your posts, to make yourself look like the victim.

[OmegaHarbinger]

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

 

Nope, I'm not in trouble just because you're an incorrigible liar.

Keep on editing your posts, to make yourself look like the victim.

 

I'm adding to my posts if I feel like it. You're not a moderator so you don't have the authority to tell to me to stop.

[snakeplissken]

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

 

Nope, I'm not in trouble just because you're an incorrigible liar. By the way, your status as a liar is rooted in fact while your opinion that my posts are both idiotic and negative is subjective. You can't be reprimanded for using a grammatically correct word when it's the only one appropriate. However, there's no excuse for calling someone's responses idiotic. That'll get you banned.

What the hell is your problem? You call me trash, threaten me, call me an idiot on many occasions, then tell me I'll get banned for calling these negative responses idiotic. Man, you make me sick.

 

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

 

Nope, I'm not in trouble just because you're an incorrigible liar.

Keep on editing your posts, to make yourself look like the victim.

 

I'm adding to my posts if I feel like it. You're not a moderator so you don't have the authority to tell to me to stop.

I never said to stop, learn to read.

[OmegaHarbinger]

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

 

Nope, I'm not in trouble just because you're an incorrigible liar. By the way, your status as a liar is rooted in fact while your opinion that my posts are both idiotic and negative is subjective. You can't be reprimanded for using a grammatically correct word when it's the only one appropriate. However, there's no excuse for calling someone's responses idiotic. That'll get you banned.

What the hell is your problem? You call me trash, threaten me, call me an idiot on many occasions, then tell me I'll get banned for calling these negative responses idiotic. Man, you make me sick.

 

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

 

Nope, I'm not in trouble just because you're an incorrigible liar.

Keep on editing your posts, to make yourself look like the victim.

 

I'm adding to my posts if I feel like it. You're not a moderator so you don't have the authority to tell to me to stop.

I never said to stop, learn to read.

 

So you've just lied once again by pretending there was no sarcasm in that post. By the way, I already know how to read. In fact, I also know that those 2 statements can't be combined properly into 1 sentence. By the way, I've already articulated my problem with you several times today. I dislike you because you're a terrible liar repeatedly shoving words down my throat which I did not say and claiming I'm wrong for reading stuff you haven't.

[snakeplissken]

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

 

Nope, I'm not in trouble just because you're an incorrigible liar. By the way, your status as a liar is rooted in fact while your opinion that my posts are both idiotic and negative is subjective. You can't be reprimanded for using a grammatically correct word when it's the only one appropriate. However, there's no excuse for calling someone's responses idiotic. That'll get you banned.

What the hell is your problem? You call me trash, threaten me, call me an idiot on many occasions, then tell me I'll get banned for calling these negative responses idiotic. Man, you make me sick.

 

Keep it going I don't care, your responses are idiotic and all negative, if anyones in trouble its you.

 

Nope, I'm not in trouble just because you're an incorrigible liar.

Keep on editing your posts, to make yourself look like the victim.

 

I'm adding to my posts if I feel like it. You're not a moderator so you don't have the authority to tell to me to stop.

I never said to stop, learn to read.

 

So you've just lied onec again by pretending there was no sarcasm in that post. By the way, I already know how to read. In fact, I also know that those 2 statements can't be combined into 1 sentence.

Your insults and remarks are a bore to read for they are all too predictable and have left me with no remorse . It has only left me with pity, for you. I make a friendly post, and you turn it all into a flame war. So i'm done with your childish remarks, I'll just ignore from now on.

[OmegaHarbinger]

Your insults and remarks are a bore to read for they are all too predictable and have left me with no remorse . It has only left me with pity, for you. I make a friendly post, and you turn it all into a flame war. So i'm done with your childish remarks, I'll just ignore from now on.

 

I assure you the feeling of contempt is mutual. You did not make a friendly post. You acted obnoxious yesterday and haven't stopped since. Laughing to a stranger is no way to establish a bond. Good riddance. I won't miss your lies and taunts at all.

[JayCueBatman]

Both of you need to stop! You both need to agree to disagree! if you cannot do that then do not post!

[OmegaHarbinger]

Both of you need to stop! You both need to agree to disagree! if you cannot do that then do not post!

 

Why do I need to agree that I said something which I did not? We're not arguing over a matter of opinion. He's lying and I'm defending my credibility.

[JayCueBatman]

I just read all the post again....from what i see it was Snake making a correction to something you had said. Then some how alot of mud gets tossed...in the middle of both comments back and forth, it was stated that Jason Todds return to life was done after Hush because the Hush Todd was seen to be Clayface. But in the Annual Clayface stepped in after Jason saw what Batman had in him still. Now the point can be argued was that the intent all along or was that an excuse to get Jason back in?

 

 

Im going to stick to my inital comment that both Snake and Omega are at fault, i will not up any warning levels in this case due to both being at fault and it wasnt a big offence.

 

Now to get the topic back on track....

 

 

it was stated that Jason Todds return to life was done after Hush because the Hush Todd was seen to be Clayface. But in the Annual Clayface stepped in after Jason saw what Batman had in him still. Now the point can be argued was that the intent all along or was that an excuse to get Jason back in?

[OmegaHarbinger]

I just read all the post again....from what i see it was Snake making a correction to something you had said. Then some how alot of mud gets tossed...in the middle of both comments back and forth, it was stated that Jason Todds return to life was done after Hush because the Hush Todd was seen to be Clayface. But in the Annual Clayface stepped in after Jason saw what Batman had in him still. Now the point can be argued was that the intent all along or was that an excuse to get Jason back in?

 

 

Im going to stick to my inital comment that both Snake and Omega are at fault, i will not up any warning levels in this case due to both being at fault and it wasnt a big offence.

 

Now to get the topic back on track....

 

 

it was stated that Jason Todds return to life was done after Hush because the Hush Todd was seen to be Clayface. But in the Annual Clayface stepped in after Jason saw what Batman had in him still. Now the point can be argued was that the intent all along or was that an excuse to get Jason back in?

 

No, Snakeplissken did not correct me on anything. Based on a previous arguement in a Marvel thread, he made a desperate attempt to rub my nose in a mistake. He thought he could do so based on him having read Hush and obviously *not* having read Batman Annual #25.

 

_I_ was the one who added the extra complexity of Judd Winnick adding the crucial retcon to Hush. Everything you said above was already covered nicely by me. You're giving Snakeplissken way too much credit for intelligent opinions he never stated anywhere. That was me pointing out both points of view just as you have done.

 

The bottom line is that I previously stated Jason was an adult in Hush and Snakeplissken somehow believes that's the same thing as saying he's old and unnecessarily informing me that he's Clayface. Of course, that makes no sense either because there was no physical difference between Jason and Clayface impersonating Jason.

 

There's no linear connection between what I said and what he thinks I said. You're basically trying to make sense out of a crazy man's ranting. So your assessment that I'm at fault is a joke. I'm not to blame just because he's nuts. Any mud flung at him was 100% deserved and I'm deeply disappointed that you couldn't follow the flow of this simple conversation.

 

There's 2 types of liars in the world. The first recognizes a real lie when they see it while the second fails to notice the nuances of the english language and sees lies everywhere. I don't really care which label applies to Snakeplissken. He's a liar and you're unbelievably gullible for thinking he expressed opinions which he never did. Can't you read?

[snakeplissken]

I just read all the post again....from what i see it was Snake making a correction to something you had said. Then some how alot of mud gets tossed...in the middle of both comments back and forth, it was stated that Jason Todds return to life was done after Hush because the Hush Todd was seen to be Clayface. But in the Annual Clayface stepped in after Jason saw what Batman had in him still. Now the point can be argued was that the intent all along or was that an excuse to get Jason back in?

 

 

Im going to stick to my inital comment that both Snake and Omega are at fault, i will not up any warning levels in this case due to both being at fault and it wasnt a big offence.

 

Now to get the topic back on track....

 

 

it was stated that Jason Todds return to life was done after Hush because the Hush Todd was seen to be Clayface. But in the Annual Clayface stepped in after Jason saw what Batman had in him still. Now the point can be argued was that the intent all along or was that an excuse to get Jason back in?

Thank you Hardrock for understanding the situation and answering my previous question on where Todd ACTUALLY appeared in Hush which Omega neglected to answer for some reason.

[dcfansb#1]

In my eyes it would have been stupid to kill Nightwing just to make Jason become him. And if Jason doesnt like being replaced then stop trying to do the replacing. And I think he is trying to mess with Dick. Because he didnt try and become Robin or Batman for that matter. They were all gone for a year right? And why do so many people and the DC writers forget how long Nightwing as been around. And how much work he as done over all these years.

 

We have all seen heros come and go. Dick has been around since he was 10. He must be doing something right. We have seen Superman die, GL die, Donna Troy die, Superboy die(and in comic time he was only around for about 3-4 years), ect. Dick has been in every DC war, every crisis ect. BUT like we said earlier. From time to time the writers get stupid and just dont know what way to go. So lets kill Dick. And then one of the heads came up and said "WHAT THE HELL ARE U GUYS DOING". So what if they WERE going to kill Dick. They DID kill Jason and the only thing more sad then Jason dieing was the way they brought him back.

 

So its okay if people dont think Dick is a outstandingly great hero. BUT think to your self about your favorite hero and I know Dick as been around longer or just as long. And for that point has put in more work.