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Star Wars Continuity Problem


*Deathblade
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I dont want to turn this into a lucas bashing fest, but something about the SW universe has been bothering me for a long time. With all the elite and elaborate clone units in the prequels, HOW did they end up sucking so bad as storm troopers in the OT?

 

I mean they could not hit the broad side of a barn, 6 or 7 of them at a time could be taken down by any hobojo rebel, and they were even defeated by EWOKS?

 

I am sure this has been discussed before at length, but could some one please explain this downgrade in quality of the troops?

 

I recall reading something about all the original clones dying, or being designed with a very short life span or something, and I GUESS the bad troops could be explained by the new storm troopers being clones of inferior donors, and not up to the quality of jango fett.

 

Is this ever explained anywhere, with a canon/in continuity answer or ever touched on in EU?

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I think by the time Episode 4 rolled around they were using clones cloned from clones lol.We know that on Geonosis in E2 that they still had 100s of 1000s of clones waiting for the Republic.With the losses during The Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire i'm sure those clones didn't last long.Without the original doner(Jango)i'm sure Palpy went with the easiest way out here-clone from sub par doners and clones from clones.

After a few cycles the clones were nothing more than blank slates who were lucky to be able to even hold the guns up.The Stomtroopers may not have been the brightest bulbs but they did have the advantage of sheer numbers.I'm sure that even some under trained Imperials were put in Stormtrooper armor.Had Palpy taken the time to have his new Stormtroopers properly trained instead of mass production to the field as quick as possible things may have been different for the Empire.

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One thing that bothers me regarding the continuity of the clones is

the very large armor variation selections in the prequels. The designs and colors varied, yet in the future the stormtroopers have a very limited selection of armor designs and no color designation.

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One thing that bothers me regarding the continuity of the clones is

the very large armor variation selections in the prequels. The designs and colors varied, yet in the future the stormtroopers have a very limited selection of armor designs and no color designation.

That was a stickler for me also.

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One thing that bothers me regarding the continuity  of the clones is

the very large armor variation selections in the prequels.  The designs and colors varied, yet in the future the stormtroopers have a very limited selection of armor designs and no color designation.

That was a stickler for me also.

If you look at history and dictatorships...usually they like to keep control by muting colors and keeping everything bland and boring...hence the boring armor and gray uniforms.

 

For example, Hitler did not have very much gradations in colors in uniforms...they were mostly brown.

 

That is my take on the armor.

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f you look at history and dictatorships...usually they like to keep control by muting colors and keeping everything bland and boring...hence the boring armor and gray uniforms.

 

For example, Hitler did not have very much gradations in colors in uniforms...they were mostly brown.

 

That is my take on the armor.

 

That's a good take on it. I would also like to point out that during times of war, troops are given much more leeway on what kind of gear they can take on the field with them, which leads sometimes to a very specialized look. 101st Airborne troops used to get mohawks during WWII, but that's not something you'd see in garrison today. Troops in Vietnam, especially Special Forces, wore different camouflage patterns, but today it's all the same stuff.

 

Sure, there was a rebellion going on, so the Empire was sort of at war during the OT, but the only real troops sent out to battle in the OT are the Galactic Marines, which still apparently retain their distinctive look. So does the unit sent to Tatooine to find the droids. All the other Stormtroopers we see are basically garrison troops, like on the Death Star and Endor.

 

Also I think that Stormtroopers might be a little more adept than we think. We don't actually see them in their "element". Rather, they're almost always interacting with the heroes, which is why they never hit them. They made short work of the Tantive IV, though...

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One thing that bothers me regarding the continuity of the clones is

the very large armor variation selections in the prequels. The designs and colors varied, yet in the future the stormtroopers have a very limited selection of armor designs and no color designation.

i think the variations and lack of colorization is a problem of a lack of budget in the original trilogy. when you can make all the clones computer animated it's much easier to have variations in color and armor.

 

i think as far as continuity goes, during the prequels the clone army is in its fledgling years. they're still working out the kinks as far as what they're going for in terms of uniformity. once the empire is formed, things are streamlined, clones are made more uniform, armor is standardized in white to make it more striking, what have you. makes enough sense to me.

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One thing that bothers me regarding the continuity  of the clones is

the very large armor variation selections in the prequels.  The designs and colors varied, yet in the future the stormtroopers have a very limited selection of armor designs and no color designation.

i think the variations and lack of colorization is a problem of a lack of budget in the original trilogy. when you can make all the clones computer animated it's much easier to have variations in color and armor.

 

i think as far as continuity goes, during the prequels the clone army is in its fledgling years. they're still working out the kinks as far as what they're going for in terms of uniformity. once the empire is formed, things are streamlined, clones are made more uniform, armor is standardized in white to make it more striking, what have you. makes enough sense to me.

yeah in the real world, the simple answer he had to make new clones to sell toys, keep fan interests...etc, and back in the 70's and 80's I am sure he did not have the budget he has now. With all the super elite squadrons established in the last 2 eps, it still makes for a pretty bad continuity problem.

 

You would think the empire would notice the drop in troop quality and adress it. I mean clones had flash training, in theory the same could be done to conscripts.

 

Unless you go even further still and say that clones were blank slates, while conscripts had already learned fear, cowadice, treachery...etc

 

Eh oh well... @loll@

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Other things

 

obi not remembering r2 at all

 

r2 being a complete moron in the last movies compared to in the first, plus lack of use of fancy tools ect

 

vader not clueing in that c3po is his old droid or lack of caring that he is... Or even clueing in that r2 was the same as well. I know is a dark sith lord now but COME ON :P

 

r2 not knowing who yoda is/hence trying to take the flash light away from him on dagabo or whatever @loll@

 

theres some other odds n ends along those lines too but I forget what...

 

 

 

I duno about you guys but if I saw a droid I knew how ever long ago & I saw that droid again still connected to the same old shait I'd have more of a reaction than those jedi did :P other than " strange I don't recall ever owning a droid before" :P

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Other things

 

obi not remembering r2 at all

 

r2 being a complete moron in the last movies compared to in the first, plus lack of use of fancy tools ect

 

vader not clueing in that c3po is his old droid or lack of caring that he is... Or even clueing in that r2 was the same as well. I know is a dark sith lord now but COME ON :P

 

r2 not knowing who yoda is/hence trying to take the flash light away from him on dagabo or whatever @loll@

 

theres some other odds n ends along those lines too but I forget what...

 

 

 

I duno about you guys but if I saw a droid I knew how ever long ago & I saw that droid again still connected to the same old shait I'd have more of a reaction than those jedi did :P other than " strange I don't recall ever owning a droid before" :P

The last three movies are clearly obvious tacked-on stories to the first three movies. Viewing them in chronological order makes no sense at all as far as drama or storytelling goes. Viewing them in RELEASE order is the only way they make sense--which is probably for the best.

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I have said this before.......from the time he last seen C3P0 till TESB Vader probably had seen thousands of protocol droids and thought nothing of it.

 

Plus he did forget some things about his former life as he got older and hate filled him.

 

Remember when Luke said to him about his name "Anakin Skywalker"

 

"Its the name of your true self you only forgotten"

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Other things

 

obi not remembering r2 at all

 

r2 being a complete moron in the last movies compared to in the first, plus lack of use of fancy tools ect

 

vader not clueing in that c3po is his old droid or lack of caring that he is... Or even clueing in that r2 was the same as well. I know is a dark sith lord now but COME ON :P

 

r2 not knowing who yoda is/hence trying to take the flash light away from him on dagabo or whatever @loll@

 

theres some other odds n ends along those lines too but I forget what...

 

 

 

I duno about you guys but if I saw a droid I knew how ever long ago & I saw that droid again still connected to the same old shait I'd have more of a reaction than those jedi did :P other than " strange I don't recall ever owning a droid before" :P

no one ever said obi doesn't remember artoo. he just says he never owned a droid. he never owned artoo, though he did know him. even before the prequels, i always thought kenobi was just being coy in this scene. he knew the droid, and he knew why it was there.

 

artoo, in my opinion, acts stupider in the prequels than he does in the original trilogy. in the original trilogy he's intelligent and a bit cynical, in the prequels he's just wacky comic relief. as for his gizmos and doo-dads, yeah that's kinda dumb, perhaps he was just downgraded over the years.

 

as far as vader not recognizing his own droids...first off, when he becomes darth vader he completely forsakes his other life. everything is gone to him, his wife is dead, his friends betrayed him (so he thinks)...secondly, throughout the movies we see tons of protocol and astromech droids. many of them look extremely similar. can you tell the difference between TC-14 and C-3P0? if they were next to each other maybe, but not if i was used to seeing protocol droids everywhere. same with astromech droids.

 

artoo not recognizing yoda. well perhaps he knows, but how is he going to tell luke? perhaps in fighting with yoda, he was merely trying to get luke's possessions back from yoda, who for all artoo knows seems to have lost his mind. artoo's loyalty is to luke, not yoda.

 

all these inconsistencies and whatnots, the truth is probably just because lucas had more technological freedoms and wanted to surprise the audience with various relationships. but if you apply some simple common sense, it's fairly easy to connect the dots yourself.

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Maybe some of R2's memory was lost after he was blasted in trenches of the Death Star.

 

Thats why he doesn't reckognize Yoda

We know Bail Organa told Capt.Antilles To wipe the protocal droids memory but perhaps R2-D2's memory was wiped also. Why do only one droid and leave the other with full memory of everything. Vader never forgot his true name He told Luke " That name no longer holds any meaning for me." Luke said he forgot not Vader. Look Lucas didn't have all the clone Idea's yet when he Did IV, V and VI He thought of it after Episode I Give the guy a break. He did this as he went along. It's been like 23 years since I saw episide IV's original release. Idea's change as time goes on.

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Maybe some of R2's memory was lost after he was blasted in trenches of the Death Star.

 

Thats why he doesn't reckognize Yoda

We know Bail Organa told Capt.Antilles To wipe the protocal droids memory but perhaps R2-D2's memory was wiped also. Why do only one droid and leave the other with full memory of everything. Vader never forgot his true name He told Luke " That name no longer holds any meaning for me." Luke said he forgot not Vader. Look Lucas didn't have all the clone Idea's yet when he Did IV, V and VI He thought of it after Episode I Give the guy a break. He did this as he went along. It's been like 23 years since I saw episide IV's original release. Idea's change as time goes on.

That's just it...........Lucas has been quoted several times saying he had the whole story FROM THE OUTSET, and just didn't have the technical means to create the images he wanted. There appears to have been some stretching of the the truth from him....because its obvious it was made up as he went along.

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Maybe some of R2's memory was lost after he was blasted in trenches of the Death Star.

 

Thats why he doesn't reckognize Yoda

We know Bail Organa told Capt.Antilles To wipe the protocal droids memory but perhaps R2-D2's memory was wiped also. Why do only one droid and leave the other with full memory of everything. Vader never forgot his true name He told Luke " That name no longer holds any meaning for me." Luke said he forgot not Vader. Look Lucas didn't have all the clone Idea's yet when he Did IV, V and VI He thought of it after Episode I Give the guy a break. He did this as he went along. It's been like 23 years since I saw episide IV's original release. Idea's change as time goes on.

That's just it...........Lucas has been quoted several times saying he had the whole story FROM THE OUTSET, and just didn't have the technical means to create the images he wanted. There appears to have been some stretching of the the truth from him....because its obvious it was made up as he went along.

i'm sure he had the general story in his mind, but the specifics weren't developed until he actually had the means to make the movie.

 

 

however, lucas HAS been quoted as saying that the only one who knows the whole story is r2d2, which i think is lame.

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Guest James31278
I think by the time Episode 4 rolled around they were using clones cloned from clones lol.We know that on Geonosis in E2 that they still had 100s of 1000s of clones waiting for the Republic.With the losses during The Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire i'm sure those clones didn't last long.Without the original doner(Jango)i'm sure Palpy went with the easiest way out here-clone from sub par doners and clones from clones.

After a few cycles the clones were nothing more than blank slates who were lucky to be able to even hold the guns up.The Stomtroopers may not have been the brightest bulbs but they did have the advantage of sheer numbers.I'm sure that even some under trained Imperials were put in Stormtrooper armor.Had Palpy taken the time to have his new Stormtroopers properly trained instead of mass production to the field as quick as possible things may have been different for the Empire.

 

He could have easily found another perfect warrior to clone.

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Who's to say Artoo didn't recognize Yoda? And who's to say Vader didn't recognize his former droids as well?

 

I don't think the continuity problems are all that bad, but I do agree that watching them in release order is the best way to see them, drama-wise.

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