Concerning The Joker

[mynameisash]

The Joker should indeed be a main player, but not "the" main player. I think he should just be an occassional thorn in Batman's side instead of some biggie crime lord (ala Nicholson). Joker should be a nuissance rather than the overlord. I think he should rise toward the end to be the main villain but beforehand he should not be the focus villain. They shouldnt even take him seriously. He should just be "the pest". does anyone agree?

[SentinelPrime]

I don't really see it your way.

 

I think Joker should be portrayed as a sicko, maniac murderer that just makes you ill being in the same room. Truly a threat, but too damn crazy to be a crime lord.

 

Killing Joke is my favorite take.

[Dolphin-Snagger]

There are three Batman villians that the average movie-goer would know: The Joker, The Riddler, and Mr.Freeze, now, seeing as how the idiot director hates superheroes (He didn't even want Batman to wear a mask.) The Joker is the only logical choice out of those, now I know that Ra's Al Ghul isn't a well known villian, and they did him in the first one, but besides The Penquin and possibly the Black Mask, Batman doesn't have any other non-superhero villians they can pick.

 

So another baddie besides The Joker would have to be homegrown and we all saw how well that turned out with Scarecrow, since they just kept the gimmick and the name.

 

 

Lastly, The Joker is the man in the comics, he killed a Batboy, he killed a Batboy Now, I don't care if it's been changed or not by recent comics, he killed the little bastard and that's all there is to it.

 

Not even Bane has done that much damage to Batman, once again for dramatic effect, The Joker killed a Batboy.

 

The Joker is Batman's Green Goblin or Magneto, he's the villian that defined who he is today, that single explosion has changed everything that Batman has done since.

 

I don't think Jim Carrey with a pogo stick compares to that.

[SentinelPrime]

Well, for an "idiot director", he certainly made the best Batman film I've ever seen. And I've seen 'em all. That movie was great.

 

And, I really loved that take on Scarecrow. You have to realize, this was his origin too. He wasn't "Scarecrow" until near the end after he was dosed up and running around on the horse. By that point he'd totally lost it and was crazy, accepting the Scarecrow persona. Duh.

 

Why do people think you have to drees up like a Power Ranger to be in a super hero movie?

 

And where did you pick up that bit about Nolan not wanting a mask?

[Dolphin-Snagger]

 

And, I really loved that take on Scarecrow. You have to realize, this was his origin too. He wasn't "Scarecrow" until near the end after he was dosed up and running around on the horse. By that point he'd totally lost it and was crazy, accepting the Scarecrow persona. Duh.

 

 

 

And where did you pick up that bit about Nolan not wanting a mask?

 

I'd seen it referenced several times, but I found it out ot be as close to fact as one can get when it was featured in one of countless men's magazines, the month of the film's release in an article about Batman Begins, they had several interesting facts about the movies and the Adam West television show, but for Begins, they had something along the lines of

 

In early drafts and designs for the movie, Bruce Wayne did not have a mask while acting under the guise of Batman, until Goyer convinced Nolan of it's importance.

 

That's not a word for word quote, but it's as close as I can remember. The important bit is that had Goyer not been involved, Batman would have been running around trying to be a symbol of an idiot in tights as opposed to a idiot trying to be a symbol of a manbat.

 

Well, for an "idiot director", he certainly made the best Batman film I've ever seen. And I've seen 'em all. That movie was great.

 

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I don't think it could of be worse if Batman had been played by Orson Welles, modern day Orson Welles at that. It was cliche, boring, and at times, utterly laughable in it's attempts to be serious. Bruce Wayne was pathetic, a useless #$### before his problems even began, and above all this, it fell into the same problems as every superhero movie before Spider-Man.

 

Everyone insults the live action Spawn movie, but it's fight scenes were watchable, no matter how far apart they were, it's humor was humorous, and it's actors weren't pretending they were in Shakespear, it was an action movie, not an epic that was ended to shape your life.

 

Which is more then I can say about Batman Begins.

 

And, I really loved that take on Scarecrow. You have to realize, this was his origin too. He wasn't "Scarecrow" until near the end after he was dosed up and running around on the horse. By that point he'd totally lost it and was crazy, accepting the Scarecrow persona. Duh.

 

I realize that it was his origin at the same time, but the actor and the character wanted something that was out of their range, they wanted to be. Neither the writting skills of Goyer/Nolan or the acting skills of the guy that played could possibly produce what they were going for and they ended up with a mere parody of a villian and an excessively comedical farce of interaction between the "heroe" and this supposed villian. The origin, it's self was crap on a stick, it was a joke even more so then the attempted acting by Lazy Mcrappy Murphy (I can't remember his real name.) And this is what happened to an established character, I shudder at the mere thought of what they would do with a new one.

 

Why do people think you have to drees up like a Power Ranger to be in a super hero movie?

 

I was actually defending the lack of traditional costumes in the X-Men movies in another topic. I have no problem with more realistic designs and the like, but at the same time, there's a point where you lose who it is you were after. You look at X-Men since I already mentioned it, you see Wolverine, even without his claws and so long as you know who the X-Men are, you know who it is, same for all of them with the possible exception of Iceman, and that can't be said for any of Batman Begins villians, not even Ra's Al Ghul. But all of this is beside the point, I wasn't talking about the costume or lack there of, I was commenting on the character as a whole.

[SentinelPrime]

Holee CRAP.

 

Did you just say Spawn was a better movie than Batman Begins?

 

I know this is the internet and people like to say bold things, but wow. I never thought I would honestly hear that one. Nice. There's going to be alot of people that are gonna get a kick out of THAT one. I mean, I watched some of Spawn a few weeks ago on HBO, to just remember. Watchable fight scenes? Oh yeah, that movies GREAT. A real gem.

 

And for someone sooo upset about this, I certainly don't see you offering up how to make a "good" Batman flick as you say.

 

Just more complaints.

[Nikon]

Michael Jai White, Martin Sheen, John Leguizamo couldn't make Spawn worth the time to watch it again. That was a terrible, terrible movie.

[Dolphin-Snagger]

Holee CRAP.

 

Did you just say Spawn was a better movie than Batman Begins?

 

I know this is the internet and people like to say bold things, but wow. I never thought I would honestly hear that one. Nice. There's going to be alot of people that are gonna get a kick out of THAT one. I mean, I watched some of Spawn a few weeks ago on HBO, to just remember. Watchable fight scenes? Oh yeah, that movies GREAT. A real gem.

 

And for someone sooo upset about this, I certainly don't see you offering up how to make a "good" Batman flick as you say.

 

Just more complaints.

I didn't say it was a good movie, I said it was better then Batman Begins, Which it is, in my opinion, I never said anything close to resembling saying that Spawn was even worth watching, but Begins is lower then that, it's like the Swept Away of Superhero movies.

 

 

And of course, I'm not suggesting how to make a good Batman movie, the movie's already out there and the sequel's already earned it's place in my fireplace as kinder, but I hold out hope that they'll be able to avoid having Alfred kidnapped and tortured. Fan opinions have proven to affect things, but the past is a little bit much to assume.

 

As for the whole constructive critism thing to help the sequel, the whole thing that brought down the movie was ego, Nolan's ego overcame his extremely limited talent and abilities, and my suggestions aren't going to penetrate that.

[SentinelPrime]

You seem to have a personal problem with Nolan moreso than you even dislike the movie. I still don't understand why you have such a huge problem with the film. Is there a Batman film you prefer? And why?

[Dolphin-Snagger]

You seem to have a personal problem with Nolan moreso than you even dislike the movie. I still don't understand why you have such a huge problem with the film. Is there a Batman film you prefer? And why?

My dislike of Nolan comes from the movie, after I saw it, I went back over every thing he'd ever said about it that I'd heard and I realized that the problems with the movie originated from Warner Brothers piss poor choices, and Nolan's ego and greed.

 

As for the the Batman question, I actually prefer Batman Forever over any of the others, ignoring the base character that he was playing, Jim Carrey actually did a pretty good job at playing the character that was written for the movie and Val Kilmer is by far the best Batman in my opinion, if only because he seemed to fit the comic book character best physically until Christian Bale was hired, and again, a fairly good proformance.

 

Now, for as much as I hate Batman Begins, facially Christian Bale was made to play Bruce Wayne, but as for his mannerisms, actual physical size, voice and general acting style, he was completely wrong for the role. He exhibited the same amount of class and charisma as a recently murdered fish, and he still resembled his character from The Machinist, an excellent but oddly funny movie.

[SentinelPrime]

OK, you're on another planet.

 

Batman Forever is better than Batman Begins. Val Kilmer is the best Batman. Spawn has good fight scenes and Christian Bale is stiff.

 

And you have such a problem with the movie Scarecrow, yet somehow the movie RIDDLER is ok with you. I suppose the movie Two-Face was also ok with you?@smilepunch@

 

Niiiiiiiice. I know these are only your opinions, but wow.

 

Just wow. It seems like you are making this all up just to get me worked up; that's how crazy it sounds.

[Doom Saber]

For me, Perfer BB to all the batman movies and spawn since it dealt with Batman and not the villians. But that is just me.

[Cloud]

OK, you're on another planet.

 

Batman Forever is better than Batman Begins. Val Kilmer is the best Batman. Spawn has good fight scenes and Christian Bale is stiff.

 

And you have such a problem with the movie Scarecrow, yet somehow the movie RIDDLER is ok with you. I suppose the movie Two-Face was also ok with you?@smilepunch@

 

Niiiiiiiice. I know these are only your opinions, but wow.

 

Just wow. It seems like you are making this all up just to get me worked up; that's how crazy it sounds.

Actually Val Kilmer was Bob Kanes favourite.

 

I guess there are a lot of different thoughts for Batman movies. Some thinks that the fan made Batman Deadend is the best so far and something that short film sucked a lot.

 

I personally have hopes for Nolans' Batman sequel. I just feel bored for Joker. He's been used too much. I'm not saying I hate him. I just feel bored with him. Too predictable.

[JayCueBatman]

Well Batman Begins was an ORIGIN story...not hey look theres Bale in the suit after the 1st 30 seconds....Nolan did a stand up job and in his second take on it he'll continue to amaze us....

 

 

But to each thier own!

[JayCueBatman]

Actually Val Kilmer was Bob Kanes favourite.

 

I guess there are a lot of different thoughts for Batman movies. Some thinks that the fan made Batman Deadend is the best so far and something that short film sucked a lot.

 

I personally have hopes for Nolans' Batman sequel. I just feel bored for Joker. He's been used too much. I'm not saying I hate him. I just feel bored with him. Too predictable.

Yeah Kane loved Kilmer....i remember hearing about that!

 

 

And about Deadend it was awesome IMO....plain and simple batman

 

 

I agree to a certain point that Joker shouldnt be the main villian, but rememeber they never killed Scarecrow nor caught Mr Zasz, so there is a chance for multiple villians. They might just build it up to be an epic battle and continue for a 3rd Nolan run...whio knows not I but as fan i can dream...it be nice to see Black Mask in a feature film...i think Nolan could pull that off

[SentinelPrime]

I read the submission was for a trilogy....I don't recall where, maybe AICnews or IGN?

 

 

 

 

 

 

spoilers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1st film, origin. 2nd film, intro of Joker, gets captured at end of film. 3rd movie, trial of the Joker, HE is the one that sprays Dent in the face, creating Two Face.

 

I know alot of particular fans are gonna cry to their mommas that it's Joker that sprays Dent, and not some random thug for hire.

 

Is that even remotely important? I mean really, people. I think it's cool that Joker sprays him with a lapel flower or whatever. It ties the story in nicely for the movies and keeps with the escalation that Gordon referred to in BB.

 

Assuming this is all true, of course. I'll try to dig a little and find a link, but I read this around the time BB hit the theaters.