Sigma Six Is Not Selling Well Is Store.

[Rama Sha]

If Walmart is in anyway responsible for dictating the change from 3 3/4" to S6 to Hasbro, then why is it that Walmarts are so slow to get them? None of the Walmarts in my area have gotten even one shipment of S6, in fact they don't even have shelf space reserved for them yet.

 

Granted, I don't think Walmart has been favorable towards GI Joe, but I think it highly unlikely they had anything to do with S6 or any of the other negative gimmicks like "Action Attack" and "Sound attack tabs" that have come out over the past few years.

Where I live Wal-Mart was the first place to get S6. Weeks before anyone else.

[Rama Sha]

There is a lot more too it, then a simple scale change.

Very much so.

When the 3 3/4" scale appeared for GIJOE there were several considerations:

 

Star Wars was immensely popular and its was scaled at 3 3/3" size for the vehicles. GIJOE went the same way.

The other thing was the concept--the original 12" GIJOES never had a strongly defined enemy. The Intruders for the Adventure Team were somewhat unsatisfying villains because kids just couldn't wrap their heads around the idea that bad guys that were SMALLER than the heroes could be any threat to them. The SuperJoe concept had villains, but the whole sci-fi/GIJOE thing was on the downslide at that time.

 

The story the Hasbro folks like to tell is the the USA Hockey team win at the Lake Placid Olympics gave rise to a nationalistic fervor--something that hadn't been seen in the USA for some time. The Vietnam debacle, Watergate, the Iranian hostage crisis and the failure of Desert One rescue mission gave Americans the feeling it was not worth it to root for themselves--but that changed. The emotional doldrums of the nation rose out of the cynical 70's into the more optimistic 80's.

The Reagan era also lent a conservative patriotic bent to things, and thus the dual teams concept of GIJOE vs COBRA came to be.

 

Its really simple, but that's what makes it so strong. It doesn't need explanation, or any grasp to understand. Its good vs evil and THAT has always worked in toys.

 

The detailed figures and vehicles that followed did the rest.

That was all the brainchild of some business folks with their finger on the cultural pulse at the time--and it worked.

While I agree with you most of this, I don't really agree that it was some smart businessman with his finger on the cultural pulse. You can look back and say that now, because it was a success. But it could have just as easily swung the other way and we'd be calling them "A good effort, that just misinterpreted the signs of what the consumer wants." Lucky for us it was a success, but I don't think it was the result of some great formula that guaranteed huge sales. It was really a desperate act to try to save a brand that was dying. IMHO it was only by bringing Marvel and it’s creative insight onboard where they able to truly turn the Joes around and make them as huge as they became. Hasbro was smart then, they stuck to what they knew….making toys and let other people handle the rest.

[skullfire]

Well I don't have the nation wide figures for this line. I would like to see SIGMA 6 die as much as the next RAH fan but we have to face it, Hasbro has spent their cash cow on sigma6, there are still new figs coming out for sigma6. And there are people who actually like sigma6.

 

However I did see sigma6 hit the instant sales rack at my local KB toys....buy one get one free LOL LOL LOL

 

On sale already?! Well it is just one store so far but it did give me some false sense of hope that maybe this sigma6 line is on it's way out.

[gscbr]

Hasbro's cheating with this S6 stuff, and leaning on the few classic names to bolster the popularity of the line and replace the need for cool vehicles with a few extra weapons in the figure packs, and call it a great marketing strategy.   Seems like coat-tail riding to me and unimaginative, seeing how it's not anything NEW or ground breaking....the style they went with for S6 that is.

I'm not disagreeing with you in this regards. I've never defended S6 as being new or innovative. I'm just defending the practice that created it, not whether it is a good toy or not, or even a good idea.

 

Buisness men as a whole can't seem to see the forrest for the tress. Do they actually teach them to ingore the problem and come up with crazy out of left field solutions in buisness school?

 

sure, because multi-million dollar and billion dollar industries are simply run by idiots with blindfolds on. if you have the solution that is missing, why aren't you making G.I. Joe. apparently it doesn't take a business education or background to do so, so you won't need one if you don't have one. if you are as schooled and knowledgeable in the problems that plague G.I. Joe, Hasbro would surely recognize it in you and you would have no problem being put in charge of the entire operation.

While I agree with you most of this, I don't really agree that it was some smart businessman with his finger on the cultural pulse. You can look back and say that now, because it was a success. But it could have just as easily swung the other way and we'd be calling them "A good effort, that just misinterpreted the signs of what the consumer wants." Lucky for us it was a success, but I don't think it was the result of some great formula that guaranteed huge sales. It was really a desperate act to try to save a brand that was dying. IMHO it was only by bringing Marvel and it’s creative insight onboard where they able to truly turn the Joes around and make them as huge as they became. Hasbro was smart then, they stuck to what they knew….making toys and let other people handle the rest.

and here you show your true ignorance of business. hasbro didn't get lucky by bringing Marvel on board. they made a conscious decision to market the toy with a comic and then a cartoon. that's called marketing! Hasbro didn't trip over their own feet and stumble upon the success of RAH, no matter how much you want to discredit them.

 

marketing isn't just having your fingertip on the pulse of society and knowing what they want. it is also coming up with ideas that people do want. there is a creative process at work as well. sure, every product that was a success could not have been. but it wasn't. the possibility that it could have been is irrelevent. the only aspect that is relevent is the factors that made it succesful. who cares about what if's" when there are "what is'."

 

and the Joe brand wasn't dying. it was dead, and Hasbro took a new approach to bring it back into the market. the approach they took was one that was relevent to the time period. again, what is that called, class? marketing!

 

ignorance spouted with confidence is still ignorance.

 

that being said, I think I may have taken the entire subject too personal so for civilities sake I'll stop now.

[skullfire]

Well don't forget, also in marketing and advertising in America another popular technique is to try and make customers want the product they are being sold. Not so much as seeing what it is the customer wants but more of an Idea of how to make customers want what the company is willing to provide. Appearently this is an American approch to marketing.....ssomething that many fans on Joe, Star Wars and Transformer boards from other countries have pointed out.

 

But anyhow, one of the first rules of american advertising is to find ways to make the customer want something and not be happy with what they already have. Inspiring the consept of keeping up w/ the jone's per say.

 

While Rama Sha's comments may not sound as educated as some here on the boards would come to expect, what he is saying is not with out merit. All Rama is pointing out is that Hasbro opperates in the fashion of attempting to create new trends in the Joe brand and try to sell to young people that "you actually want this" as oppose to "hey what do Joe fans really want...3 3/4 figures single carded? really? Ok thats what you guys want, no problem". The latter being real market research. The former approch how ever is far more cheaper for the company to do and like it or not it does work. Sigma 6 is selling.

 

But an interesting thing is happening w/ the Joe line. We have the DTC carded figure line and vehicals. This line basicly follows true market research theory, making what the customer actualy has said they wanted, while sigma is the approch of trying to minipulate the customer into wanting something brand new that might be more cost effective for hasbro.

 

It is like some sort of experiment to see which theory works better and importantly brings in more money vs production costs. Basicly if you want hasbro to listen to your demands then buy the online DTC stuff and not the sigma 6 stuff. Let your dollars do the voting.

 

On a side note I don't know their names but the new owners of the toy r us chain have already demanded that hasbro produce all of the DTC toys to be sold at toys r us. What that means is toys r us wants to buy the DTC lines to sell to their customers. Meaning, hasbro makes their money before toys r us makes their sale......(I know we all know how this works but I just felt a review was in order to make my point here). The point being is that hasbro might be dropping the ball here when they could be making an easy sale to toys r us.......as we can see, hasbro has done nothing to put the DTC line on toy shelves and pegs at toys are us. Becuase of the new cartoon and all of the cool new vehicals in the show, Hasbro needs to start moving fast on putting out the DTC line to toys r us cos for example we all know little kids are asking mom and dad for a RHINO or that cool new HISS. Mom and dad have no clue where to get it on line......they are too busy asking toys stores for one in stock. The cartoon is selling potentual toys that now one can find (oh yeah on-line, hah thats not a store for normal folks...com'on here). So is it really smart toy marketing having a cartoon making people want cool stuff yet not have that stuff readly available to buy?

 

Just a thought.

[Harry_Flashman]

sure, because multi-million dollar and billion dollar industries are simply run by idiots with blindfolds on. if you have the solution that is missing, why aren't you making G.I. Joe. apparently it doesn't take a business education or background to do so, so you won't need one if you don't have one. if you are as schooled and knowledgeable in the problems that plague G.I. Joe, Hasbro would surely recognize it in you and you would have no problem being put in charge of the entire operation.

 

gscbr, man, your tone is unneccessarily nasty. Is it worth spouting the hate over a marketing/business argument in a toy forum?

[EMB]

While I agree with you most of this, I don't really agree that it was some smart businessman with his finger on the cultural pulse. You can look back and say that now, because it was a success. But it could have just as easily swung the other way and we'd be calling them "A good effort, that just misinterpreted the signs of what the consumer wants." Lucky for us it was a success, but I don't think it was the result of some great formula that guaranteed huge sales. It was really a desperate act to try to save a brand that was dying. IMHO it was only by bringing Marvel and it’s creative insight onboard where they able to truly turn the Joes around and make them as huge as they became. Hasbro was smart then, they stuck to what they knew….making toys and let other people handle the rest.

 

I wasn't trying to say in my original post that RAH was only the result of some business man. I was trying to point out that S6 is the culmination of many factors, very much in the same vein as RAH was. To simply say that RAH's huge success was a mistake seems a little dumbfounding(sp) to me. S6 is kinda like a new RAH for the next generation.

 

I agree with gscbr, its easy to see that a lot of thought went into RAH, and S6.

[Rama Sha]

sure, because multi-million dollar and billion dollar industries are simply run by idiots with blindfolds on.

 

Well there is this company called Mattel.....

 

if you have the solution that is missing, why aren't you making G.I. Joe.  apparently it doesn't take a business education or background to do so, so you won't need one if you don't have one.  if you are as schooled and knowledgeable in the problems that plague G.I. Joe, Hasbro would surely recognize it in you and you would have no problem being put in charge of the entire operation.

 

Well that's a stupid thing to say. It doesn't take a business degree to run a toy company. I'm sure you don't want to believe that, because given your nasty posts and assertions that everyone else here except you is far too stupid to understand the business world, I'd say you are a business student or recently one that thinks he knows everything about everything. But I got news you for buddy the real world isn’t anything like school. That's true of almost every profession, not just business. It takes a lot of luck and a lot of creativity to make something happen. The all mighty Demi-God of business, as you seem to think it is, won't always be there to bail your ass out of a situation.

 

As to why Hasbro won't hire me...well people with little pieces of paper like to hire people with other little pieces of paper. If Hasbro saw my ideas and liked them, they'd just steal them. They'd never hire me. Sure I could go to school and try to get a job there and then they might actually have to give me credit for the stuff I came up with (but knowing the business world, I doubt they would.) but I have no desire to become a soul less ladder climber. I'm an artist, and a writer, I'd probably kill myself if I forced myself into that lifestyle. Some people like yourself can handle and think it's the best thing in world, but I'm not one of those people. But I'd say it's even odds on who could come up with the next big thing, the Businessman with the Bachelors, or the guy with the GED working out of his garage. But of course our current society holds down the guy in his garage. So no more Pet Rocks for us, which if you want to really study marketing that was the best marketing in the world.

 

and here you show your true ignorance of business.  Hasbro didn't get lucky by bringing Marvel on board.  they made a conscious decision to market the toy with a comic and then a cartoon.  that's called marketing!  Hasbro didn't trip over their own feet and stumble upon the success of RAH, no matter how much you want to discredit them. 

 

And you show your true ignorance of the English language since you didn't seem to even read what I wrote. I didn't say Hasbro was lucky to hire Marvel. If you read again I said they where smart to hire Marvel. I also never said they tripped on their feet to make ARAH success. No doubt they gave it they’re all and did all they could to MAKE it a success. What I said was it was a gamble and they where lucky it took off like it did, as it could have just as easily as flopped costing them millions. I don't know if you just have a short-term memory, but toylines come out and flop almost every year. I don't think those people half-assed it and didn't want it to be a success. What I'm saying is they gambled and lost. ARAH gambled and won. There was no for sure magic formula come up with by businessmen that are on some higher evolutionary plane the rest of us simple folk. It was normal guy that took a big risk and won. That's it. End of story. We can only talk about how smart they where now, because it did do well.

[Rama Sha]

While I agree with you most of this, I don't really agree that it was some smart businessman with his finger on the cultural pulse. You can look back and say that now, because it was a success. But it could have just as easily swung the other way and we'd be calling them "A good effort, that just misinterpreted the signs of what the consumer wants." Lucky for us it was a success, but I don't think it was the result of some great formula that guaranteed huge sales. It was really a desperate act to try to save a brand that was dying. IMHO it was only by bringing Marvel and it’s creative insight onboard where they able to truly turn the Joes around and make them as huge as they became. Hasbro was smart then, they stuck to what they knew….making toys and let other people handle the rest.

 

I wasn't trying to say in my original post that RAH was only the result of some business man. I was trying to point out that S6 is the culmination of many factors, very much in the same vein as RAH was. To simply say that RAH's huge success was a mistake seems a little dumbfounding(sp) to me. S6 is kinda like a new RAH for the next generation.

 

I agree with gscbr, its easy to see that a lot of thought went into RAH, and S6.

Ok, I understand what you saying. I proably worded that wrong. Like I said in my above post is that there wasn't a sure-fire formula that some super smart guy came up with and sat in front of the Excs brashly claiming it would make millions. It was a gamble. S6 is a gamble too. I like S6, but it's still a gamble and could still fall flat on it's face. I bet the guy that came up with idea for ARAH was sweating his ass off and full of self doubt. Proably more then once he thought his idea was all wrong and would flop.

[EMB]

Ok, I understand what you saying. I proably worded that wrong. Like I said in my above post is that there wasn't a sure-fire formula that some super smart guy came up with and sat in front of the Excs brashly claiming it would make millions. It was a gamble. S6 is a gamble too. I like S6, but it's still a gamble and could still fall flat on it's face. I bet the guy that came up with idea for ARAH was sweating his ass off and full of self doubt. Proably more then once he thought his idea was all wrong and would flop.

 

Sounds good!

[A Nonny Moose]

They sell pretty well here in my little podunk town. I like them, they're fun and they remind me of the fun i've had equiping and customizing the 12 inch joes.

[Guest James31278]

I know for a fact Sigma 6 figures are extremely popular, Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow are the most popular figures from S6. Storm Shadow is the most popular figure of the entire line.

[n8dawgaic]

Wal-Mart still doesn't have them around here. KB is the only place I have seen them, and the Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow are always absent.

[Viper Hunter]

Wal-Mart still doesn't have them around here. KB is the only place I have seen them, and the Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow are always absent.

I've not seen any S6 at the Wal-Marts around here either, but to be honest, I haven't really been looking as hard at the toy isles as what I use to.

 

I'd say it's been over a week (maybe two) since I was in one and looked.

 

 

I'd assume that since Wal-Mart hand crafted Sigma Six FOR Hasbro, they'd be stocking them to the ceiling, and promoting them like crazy, just to SHOW Hasbro they know what they're talking about, when it comes to what's hot and what's not and what kinds of toys kids like.

 

 

 

 

@hmmm@

 

 

 

 

 

 

@loll@ One for the Wally haters!

[BrotherShane]

Same here, no S6 figures in my local Wally...

[Devilbat]

I stopped by Wal-Mart on my way home this evening specifically to look for Sigma 6 figures. I found only two. Now I can't say for sure how many Wal-Mart had gotten in stock prior to my visit since it's been a week or two since I've been there, so I wouldn't know for sure if they sold well or not. That would seem to be the case, though, for what it's worth...

 

 

And...standing here on the outside looking in concerning Hasbro and their marketing/business decisions, I can only give my opinion; nothing more. Because all I know about is buying what they're selling, and that's about it. But here it is in case anyone cares:

 

 

Something drove Hasbro to decide on a larger scale, whether it be Marvel Legends, or what have you. I don't think MOTU was even a factor considering its abscence from toy shelves for awhile. And I think that the 3-3/4" scale wasn't a factor anymore because the only real competition in the past was Star Wars, and well...now Hasbro owns the toy license for Star Wars of course, so...why market a line of figures that would basically be competition (through kids' eyes anyway) for their own figures? (Did that make any sense whatsoever??) (lol) And I think Hasbro wanted to clear the way for Episode III, to make sure they'd get their money's worth out of those fees they paid ol' Georgie...

 

And...I also believe Hasbro may have wanted to steer G.I. Joe away from any ties or resemblances to the military due to the political climate right now. Perhaps a straight-up G.I. Joe would have proven unpopular considering the divisions among people over the ongoing war in Iraq. I don't know. But consider this: Sigma 6 is much more prominent on the packaging than G.I. Joe. Draw attention away from anything related to the military...hence the sub-title treatment "G.I. Joe" gets on the packaging, and no American flags (as sad and unfortunate as that sounds). And didn't a similar thing happen to the original 12-inch line back in the late sixties/early seventies as a result of the Vietnam War? Something to think about...

 

Also, I've read where experts have always targeted the children's market first, because historically that's where the big money is. So one would have to assume there'd be market studies to see what kids prefer. So...somewhere I'm assuming the larger scale proved more popular. Again I don't know; this is just speculation on my part.

 

I still think Sigma 6 is new, innovative in its delivery, and wildly exciting...at least to me anyway. And I also personally believe Hasbro is catering to us older fans (along with the ones who prefer 3-3/4" Joes only) with the advent of the DTC line. Think about it: Hasbro could push Sigma 6 at retail with no distractions, and they'd hold on to the 3-3/4" fans that maybe didn't float the 3-3/4" stuff at retail so well but could easily support and justify a smaller, more focused line of toys sold online only. In Hasbro's mind, I'm sure they think they have all bases covered and the best of both worlds so to speak. And to us fans who like it all, we feel the same way.

 

 

P.S. One thing I don't understand is highlighting the 3-3/4" vehicles in the cartoon that for all intents and purposes is a commercial for the Sigma 6 toys. (?) Uh...Hasbro, what's up with that? Make your mind up! Which toy line ya gonna promote?? @hmmm@ (lol)

[Viper Hunter]

P.S. One thing I don't understand is highlighting the 3-3/4" vehicles in the cartoon that for all intents and purposes is a commercial for the Sigma 6 toys. (?) Uh...Hasbro, what's up with that? Make your mind up! Which toy line ya gonna promote?? @hmmm@ (lol)

What we've seen so far of the S6 cartoon, was in production when the 3 3/4" line was still in mind, as was all the stuff being sold now on the Hasbro DTC site.

 

8" Sigma Six figures were being produced as well, as maybe a supplement to the line or alternative of sorts, and in the process, a last minute decision was made, to pull all BUT the new 8" line from retail, and to sell off the already produced 3 3/4" stuff...online.

 

The items shown in the cartoon, not available to retail consumers (the kids) is probably considered unconsequental by Hasbro at this point.

[Devilbat]

P.S. One thing I don't understand is highlighting the 3-3/4" vehicles in the cartoon that for all intents and purposes is a commercial for the Sigma 6 toys. (?) Uh...Hasbro, what's up with that? Make your mind up! Which toy line ya gonna promote??  @hmmm@  (lol)

What we've seen so far of the S6 cartoon, was in production when the 3 3/4" line was still in mind, as was all the stuff being sold now on the Hasbro DTC site.

 

8" Sigma Six figures were being produced as well, as maybe a supplement to the line or alternative of sorts, and in the process, a last minute decision was made, to pull all BUT the new 8" line from retail, and to sell off the already produced 3 3/4" stuff...online.

 

The items shown in the cartoon, not available to retail consumers (the kids) is probably considered unconsequental by Hasbro at this point.

Ohh...I see. Gotcha.

[gscbr]

What we've seen so far of the S6 cartoon, was in production when the 3 3/4" line was still in mind, as was all the stuff being sold now on the Hasbro DTC site.

 

8" Sigma Six figures were being produced as well, as maybe a supplement to the line or alternative of sorts, and in the process, a last minute decision was made, to pull all BUT the new 8" line from retail, and to sell off the already produced 3 3/4" stuff...online.

 

The items shown in the cartoon, not available to retail consumers (the kids) is probably considered unconsequental by Hasbro at this point.

not quite. Hasbro's 2004 Annual Report boasts of a new figure scale for G.I. Joe and a cartoon to support it (pg. 13 if anyone is interested in reading it), so the cartoon has always been meant solely for Sigma 6 8" figures. ultimately, it simply is a matter that although Hasbro may not intend to produce the vehicles for the larger scale they want to put vehicles in the cartoon, so they may as well be vehicles they have designed and are part of the G.I. Joe universe. it's simply a matter of continuity between the lines.

[Draven79]

If have seen two Walmarts with Sigma and both sold through two cases in a few days and now nothing. Target sold through a couple here too and just restocked today it looked like.

Draven

[Viper Hunter]

What we've seen so far of the S6 cartoon, was in production when the 3 3/4" line was still in mind, as was all the stuff being sold now on the Hasbro DTC site.

 

8" Sigma Six figures were being produced as well, as maybe a supplement to the line or alternative of sorts, and in the process, a last minute decision was made, to pull all BUT the new 8" line from retail, and to sell off the already produced 3 3/4" stuff...online.

 

The items shown in the cartoon, not available to retail consumers (the kids) is probably considered unconsequental by Hasbro at this point.

not quite. Hasbro's 2004 Annual Report boasts of a new figure scale for G.I. Joe and a cartoon to support it (pg. 13 if anyone is interested in reading it), so the cartoon has always been meant solely for Sigma 6 8" figures. ultimately, it simply is a matter that although Hasbro may not intend to produce the vehicles for the larger scale they want to put vehicles in the cartoon, so they may as well be vehicles they have designed and are part of the G.I. Joe universe. it's simply a matter of continuity between the lines.

That could very well be, but what if the cartoon was slightly ahead of the Sigma Six toys? Cartoon begins production just a little before the decision to go with a different scale altogether (instead of just a new theme for the 3 3/4" line) and what was originally going to be versions of Joes from the cartoon in 3 3/4"...was reconfigured into the new 8" line?

 

By the time the 2004 annual report was finalized, the cartoon AND the 8" line were being merged together as one, and simply saying at that point that there's a "cartoon to support it" doesn't really mean a whole lot as to whether that was it's original intentions, but it will work well enough as is.

 

With nothing to substantiate any of this, all we can ever do is speculate what Hasbro might have been intending.

 

I'll stick with my theory that cartoon was in the makings FIRST, with every intention of it "supporting" the 3 3/4" line, as the new theme for them, and quickly shifted gears to take in the new 8" scale.

[Man-3-Faces]

That am funnies, I are seeing the exact oppunsite on my stores that are here, in my area... @hmmm@

f**king great!!!!! @loll@

[Devilbat]

Went back to my Wal-Mart today, and one of the two figures I saw yesterday was gone. Somebody is buying these things, and it's not me. (lol) I'm gonna be on the lookout for the ninja bike this weekend, and I still need Spirit and Duke. The one figure they had left at Wal-Mart was Spirit, but he had some silver paint spots on the black and green part of his chest, so I passed...

[Spartan-MK2]

Here is the breakdown at stores around where I live in ohio:

 

Meijer #1: Sold out. Dept manager said they have more on the way that they keep getting calls from people wanting to know when they will be in.

 

Meijer #2: 2 Ninja Bikes and 2 Spirits left

 

Kmart: Nada. Noone knew when more would be in.

 

Walmart: 4 Dukes and about 6 Spirits. Thats it. The clerk kept saying they were so cool that he has a complete set. He said they are pretty rare that everyone is selling out. (I tried telling him they are just popular)

 

Toys R Us: Nothing at all. But I dont know if they had any in the first place. Thre is shelf space . But I didnt see any.

 

Target #1: 2 Dukes and 1 Ninja Bike

 

Target #2: 1 Ninja Bike and a complete set of all the figures.

 

 

 

Seems to be that this line may be a success for Hasbro! The toon is pretty cool and the toys are selling great!

[Lt Falcon]

Wow. I think I'm the only fan that just doesn't care about S6. I like ARAH. I recognize S6, but they just don't appeal to me. Succeed or fail, I'm really not worried about it. Just like any other toy. I don't see why people get in such an uproar over this. As long as they at least keep with the DTC ARAH, I'm happy.