Remember I Spoke About Star Wars Ripping Off Lotr?

[biglebowski9999]

ANH, ESB, ROTJ, and TPM were all out before any of the Lord of the rings movies.

 

Um, not that I think SW is a rip-off of LOTR or anything, but I would think that someone who professed to reading the books would realize that they came out in the 1950's which last time I checked was WAY before ANH came out. When the LOTR movies came out really has nothing to do w/ the argument...

[Skips]

Well any big epic stories involving Worlds and different Races all almost come down being similiar anyway if you think about it

[DPrime]

Um, not that I think SW is a rip-off of LOTR or anything, but I would think that someone who professed to reading the books would realize that they came out in the 1950's which last time I checked was WAY before ANH came out. When the LOTR movies came out really has nothing to do w/ the argument...

 

Sure it does - I think Lucas was influenced by the books (not as much as other sources, but there is something there), but Peter Jackson was influenced by the Star Wars films as well.

[MLfan]

Sauron: I am your father!

 

Frodo: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Ren]

That's stupid - both stories follow a classic myth/hero story-type. Any English major (I'm not one) can tell you all about that sort of thing.

Nail hit squarely on the head.

[arisingquiet]

I agree completely with what's been said, I've been writing a complex story for over a year now... and I've told some people the premise and they go... well that's like LOTR, MATRIX, SW, etc... and my only reasoning is, listen Lucas didn't create the idea of good v.s. evil, of a good and negative energy type scenario, and that largely most stories are from a type. It's true that only 13-14 true stories exist and everything after, is just bits and pieces of originality.

 

I held back for awhile on seeing all the LoTR films and the SW films...because I was writing this epic story and didn't want those films influencing me. I finished my story recently and then watched all the SW movies and most of the LoTR's. I found that my story had some similarities, without having even watched the SW/LoTR films. I was kinda annoyed by this, but in the end I relized that Lucas or Tolkien didn't corner alot of these plot points. Heck, go back to biblical times and see the idea of good v.s. evil, a prodigal son, positive energy (meditation, prayer) and negative energy, sacrifice...etc.

[darthfather2005]

I like the Yoda/Gollum similarities. Made me laugh very much. Only one had the power to lift space ships, use a lightsaber, and lead an entire army. And he did not crave ultimate power, he tried to teach it.

 

Yoda's Gollum imitation: “Precious you are, mine you will be, yes.�

[hamsterboy]

Beowulf is the inspiration for many of these stories.

 

So, LOTR 'borrowed' from Beowulf.

And you can add the Arthurian legend to that mix as well because I see alot of that in both LotR and Star Wars.

[KENNY GUIDO]

well, up until 12 months ago, I never had seen the any of the LOTR movies nor read any of the books. I had tried explaining to them that Lucas got his inspiration from old ww2 movies, flash gorden and greek mytholigy stories but they still believed lucas stole from tolken.

Kenny it's not a rip off in any way shape or form. I have read the tolkin books since I was 14 and I have read them many times. It's fantasy plain ansd simple a good vs evil story line like most storys. and ANH, ESB, ROTJ, and TPM were all out before any of the Lord of the rings movies.

 

If you disect things long enough you will find similaritys but in no way are they rip offs.

I know, I had said the same thing before I saw the movies. I did see other simalrities that the lotr people showed me. for instance, (bare with me, I cant remember the LOTR names) when smiegal tells the hobit to go into the cave is one (yoda and luke on dagabah) , the invasion of the castle with the armed elephants (at-at's), the white wizard (obi wan). these were just some of the examples they gave me where as lucas had stolen from the lotr's novels.

Kenny everyone has told you that your wrong on this. If you choose to believe what LOTR people tell you then Nothing anyone says will change your mind. Just Remember if Lucas did what you say they claim he did then where is the LAW SUIT kenny? There has never been one that I ever heard of and I know that would make the evening news and local papers if it had ever happend.

 

Did you ever stop to think Tolkin might have ripped off someone elses ideas at one time? His stories are like so many others out there.

 

Lucas always said he was inspired by Samuri films and war stories and that's where Star wars came from. You are intitled to your oppinion Kenny but where so may do not agree with you why keep debating it.

Just let it go.

first off, why am I wrong? i am merely relaying what the LOTR people had told me. & when you analyze it, the facts pretty much stack up against lucas. I am not against lucas, I am a stauch supporter of his and when this debate raged on, there were just as many star wars fans debating this as there were LOTR fans (I dont know why there wasnt anyone from this site on in this discussion a year ago on the HOWARDSTERN.COM site) but I wish there were.

[KENNY GUIDO]

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Lucas "borrowed" from all sorts of different sources of inspiration, LOTR, Flash Gordon, Akira Kurosawa etc.

yes, but I never heard him borrowing from LOTRs until they pointed it out. they had a long laundry list of what lucas took from the LOTR series. when i mean, long, i mean "long"! there were close to a 100 simalarities.

[KENNY GUIDO]

Um, not that I think SW is a rip-off of LOTR or anything, but I would think that someone who professed to reading the books would realize that they came out in the 1950's which last time I checked was WAY before ANH came out. When the LOTR movies came out really has nothing to do w/ the argument...

 

Sure it does - I think Lucas was influenced by the books (not as much as other sources, but there is something there), but Peter Jackson was influenced by the Star Wars films as well.

werent the LOTR movies partially done in Lucas's ILM?

[SufferingSappho]

It's fairly easy to pick and choose between story similiarities, though in the case up top there are too many over-simplifications made for the sake of comparison. Bottom line, Lucas doesn't even come close to Tolkien for sheer writing talent. If it weren't for the special FX spectacle that accompanies each film, I doubt anyone would consider SW a truly entertaining story.

 

j

[ju.ke]

I was a bigger fan of LOTR before watching ROTS... but having seen all 6 ...... i can say... there no way... Starwars is a rip off of lord of the rings. No offense to all the hobbit fans out there... but Starwars is way deeper.

 

Lord of the rings: hero turning bad but doesnt do anything bad

starwars: hero turns bad because of his love for his wife and therefore has to turn into a bad ass to save his wife life!

 

A lot of storylines are similer.... but to say starswars copied Lord of the rings is just TOTALLY WRONG!!!

[eleavitt2000]

Weren't the LOTR movies partially done in Lucas's ILM?

 

No, Peter Jackson established his own special and digital effects companies called: Weta.

 

The Hobbit, written by J.R.R. Tolkien as a children's book was first published in 1937. The Lord of the Rings books, which were written as one book, but split into three volumes at the insistence of his publisher, were published in 1954.

 

Tolkien's works became very popular on American university campuses in the late 1960s and early 1970s so its very possible Lucas was influenced directly by Tolkien's work.

 

The Dune parallels are very obvious and more interesting.

 

http://www.jitterbug.com/origins/dune.html

Frank Herbert's 1963 Dune is to science fiction what The Lord of The Rings is to fantasy: the most popular, most influential and most critically-acclaimed novel in the genre. Herbert's novel was a revelation: before Dune, even the most well-written science fiction had been mostly "wonderful gadget" stories, or political commentary expressed through exaggeration. It had never occurred to anyone that science fiction could offer the literary depth of Dostoevsky, the intricate "wheels within wheels" intrigues of Shakespeare or so deeply fulfill the heroic epic form behind Gilgamesh, The Odyssey, Le Morte D'Arthur, The Mahabharata, and Beowulf.

 

Lucas has often acknowledged Dune as an inspiration. In early drafts of the Star Wars script the influence was much more obvious - the story was full of feudalistic Houses and dictums, and the treasure the Princess was guarding wasn't the Death Star plans, but a shipment of "aura spice." The final version of Star Wars is related to Dune mostly in spirit: a science fiction heroic fantasy treated seriously. Of all the ideas George Lucas inherited from Frank Herbert, the subtle lesson was how to use science fiction to create myth. His lesser borrowings might include:

 

Star Wars

Dune

Princess Leia                   

Princess Alia (pronounced a-leia) 

Villain turns out to be hero's father 

Villain turns out to be hero's grandfather 

Tatooine a desert planet 

Arrakis (Dune) a desert planet 

Sandcrawler - Vehicle piloted by Jawas, "left over from a forgotten mining era long ago" 

Sandcrawler - Vehicle piloted by Arrakins, used to mine for spice 

Moisture Farmers (like Uncle Owen) 

Dew Collectors: "...used by Fremen to line concave planting depressions where they provide a small but reliable source of water" 

Spice Mines of Kessel (mentioned in passing) 

Spice is the most valued commodity in the universe, mined from Dune 

Jedi Mind Trick - Jedi ability which controls the actions of others 

The Voice - Bene Gesserit ability which controls the actions of others 

Jedi Bendu, the Jedi training technique which gives them excellent internal control as well as supernatural prowess in combat 

Prana Bindu, the Bene Gesserit training technique which gives them excellent internal control as well as supernatural prowess in combat

Vision of Obi-Wan appears to Luke on Hoth, while he's seemingly dying  Vision of Pardot Kynes appears to Liet-Kynes in the desert, while he's dying 

The Trade Federation has a monopoly on shipping in space 

The Spacing Guild has a monopoly on shipping and transportation in space 

Luke practices his lightsaber technique against an automated training remote 

Alia practices her sword technique against an automated training dummy 

Millennium Falcon barely escapes from the jaws of giant, sightless space slug before it falls back into the asteroid. 

The Duke's ornithopter barely escapes from the jaws of a giant, sightless sandworm before it falls back into the dunes. 

Luke spies on the Sandpeople using electrobinoculars 

Paul spies on the Fremen using electric binoculars 

Repulsors - Small devices which counteract gravity (used in the landspeeder, speeder bikes, pod racers and Jabba's barge)  Suspensors - Small devices which counteract gravity (used to suspend the Baron Harkonnen and Glowglobes) 

Jabba (1983) is a worm/slug thing, about 15 feet long, with human-like Leto II, God Emperor of Dune (1981), is a worm/slug thing, about 15 feet long, with human-like facial features, arms and hands, who sits atop a dais  facial features, arms and hands, who sits atop a dais 

[TOYMAN65]

ANH, ESB, ROTJ, and TPM were all out before any of the Lord of the rings movies.

 

Um, not that I think SW is a rip-off of LOTR or anything, but I would think that someone who professed to reading the books would realize that they came out in the 1950's which last time I checked was WAY before ANH came out. When the LOTR movies came out really has nothing to do w/ the argument...

The Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings movies? That is what Kenny was refering to. Those came out in 2000 or later.

[TOYMAN65]

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Lucas "borrowed" from all sorts of different sources of inspiration, LOTR, Flash Gordon, Akira Kurosawa etc.

yes, but I never heard him borrowing from LOTRs until they pointed it out. they had a long laundry list of what lucas took from the LOTR series. when i mean, long, i mean "long"! there were close to a 100 simalarities.

Kenny I think what turned me off about this topic was it's title. In this quote you're saying you never heard of Lucas Borrowing from LOTR till they ( a bunch of whiny LOTR Geeks ) told you about it.

 

In the begining of this thread and it's topic Your saying Lucas and Star Wars RIPPED OFF LOTR (RIPPED OFF AS IN STOLE) I know Lucas didn't invent everything from his imagination completely but he didn't Steal Or Rip Off anyone either. If he did there would be law suits galore.

 

I do believe Lucas was inspired by Tolkien as well as other books, Authors and movies but His characters and stories were in there own class.

 

Sure if you Disect it long enough you can find similaritys but I believe those LOTR guys you had the argument with just messed with your head. They probably don't like Star Wars and are only into LOTR. I wouldn't doubt if they have no lives and dress up and pretend to be characters from the movie all the time. Guys like that go around quoting the characters lines as if it were real life.

[Archer1120]

SNAP!!

CRACKLE!!!

 

POP.

 

Anyway, like everyone gas already said, both stories combine basic elements and archtypes that many stories share. Star Wars didn't rip off the LOTR, but some elements are similar. The ones you listed are really a strecth. Also Kenny, why are you surprised that people are jumping on you about this? You come to the Star Wars forum and tell all of us fans that the movies we love are nothing but copies? I wouldn't expect too much support. It seems like this is a post with weak similarities made to just stir people up. I also think it's high time to put this to rest.

 

Arch

[biglebowski9999]

ANH, ESB, ROTJ, and TPM were all out before any of the Lord of the rings movies.

 

Um, not that I think SW is a rip-off of LOTR or anything, but I would think that someone who professed to reading the books would realize that they came out in the 1950's which last time I checked was WAY before ANH came out. When the LOTR movies came out really has nothing to do w/ the argument...

The Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings movies? That is what Kenny was refering to. Those came out in 2000 or later.

Okay, I'll say this again...slowly.

 

You posted this:

 

"Kenny it's not a rip off in any way shape or form. I have read the tolkin books since I was 14 and I have read them many times. It's fantasy plain ansd simple a good vs evil story line like most storys. and ANH, ESB, ROTJ, and TPM were all out before any of the Lord of the rings movies."

 

 

So...what does the fact that the OT came out before the LOTR movies do to further your argument that Lucas didn't rip them off? The BOOKS that the movies are based on were split and reached the US in the 1950's.

[eleavitt2000]

So...what does the fact that the OT came out before the LOTR movies do to further your argument that Lucas didn't rip them off? The BOOKS that the movies are based on were split and reached the US in the 1950's.

 

You're basically right. But does no one read or understand my posts. I said this a while back. However, I offer one important correction.

 

The books were published in Great Britain in 1954-1955 in the three hardcover volumes that we're familiar with sans the Appendices. They were published in the United States in hardcover slightly after that.

 

However, they did not become popular and widely read in the United States until the early 1960s, when Ace Books published unauthorized paperback editions because the books were not protected by U.S. copyright law. Ultimately, Ace Books had to stop ripping off Tolkien, and Ballantine issued its editions.

 

So, The Lord of the Rings did not become widely read in the United States until the 1960s.

 

However, the main point is this...Lucas could have been inspired by the books, but he could not have ripped off the Peter Jackson films because Star Wars Episodes IV, V, VI, and I were all written and produced before Jackson made his epic film trilogy.

[firestongue]

Whoever the LOTR types that are claiming all that are making the rest of the lOTR types look bad lol

[DPrime]

This is stupid. These "similarities" could probably be found between Star Wars and A Fish Called Wanda, if you really wanted to look deep enough. Let's end this pointless debate.

[KENNY GUIDO]

SNAP!!

CRACKLE!!!

 

POP.

 

Anyway, like everyone gas already said, both stories combine basic elements and archtypes that many stories share. Star Wars didn't rip off the LOTR, but some elements are similar. The ones you listed are really a strecth. Also Kenny, why are you surprised that people are jumping on you about this? You come to the Star Wars forum and tell all of us fans that the movies we love are nothing but copies? I wouldn't expect too much support. It seems like this is a post with weak similarities made to just stir people up. I also think it's high time to put this to rest.

 

Arch

yes, im quite surprised that people misinterpeted what I had said and took it as if I were against star wars. but my first statment clearly says that I was arguing with the LOTR fans. no one should be arguing with me here, they should argue with the LOTR people. although the site no longer exists, there are still a couple of sites that still discuss this.