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G.i. Joe May Get It's Own Japanese Anime


Mekk Z
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Like others here I will believe it when I see it.

 

But IF it is true then I'm all for it. The reason that Japanese anime has such a huge following from Americans is that the animation is usually far supirior than anything seen in America. I dare say that until Batman: The Animated Series came along there wasn't anything that came close to some animes (this includes the original G.I. Joe and Transformers).

 

A lot of the negative comments being made here about anime are way to general. Anime is not any one kind of style really. Look at American cartoons . . are they all like the Flintstones? It would be unfair to judge all American toons on the crap Hanna-Barbara pumped out during the 60s, 70s, and 80s. It's the same with anime. Speed Racer's animation is natoriously bad but stuff like Akira is hailed as being better than anything Walt Disney ever did. I agree.

 

<<While I don't care if a GI Joe cartoon is produced by a Japanese studio, I would prefer that it is not done in the Anime style (As in the type of style used for Cowboy Bebop). If an animated cartoon is being planned, I would prefer it to be done in the same drawing style as the old Sunbow cartoons.>>

 

I for one would LOVE to see Joe done like Cowboy Bebop, however even if this rumor is true I doubt we would get something that good.

 

Sunbow was good and all but even as a kid I remember people making fun of it. I think maybe since it was first and because DIC sucked so hard that people have placed Sunbow on a higer pedistal than it should be on.

 

To me it's all about the animation. I will not casy away something far supirior than Subow simply because it is Japanese.

 

All in all however I'd love to see a Joe toon no matter how it was done - CGI or otherwise.

Just to clarify something:

Anime doesn't really "animate" all that much. Its limited animation, making extensive use of held-cels and shots. Its very much like the limited animation styles on those Hanna Barbera Flintstone and Huckleberry Hound cartoons from the 1960's.

Fully animated cartoons would be something like Disney's features, or the Warner Bros. shorts.

What makes the cartoons appealing is the focus on good drawing with that limited animation--using highlights and shadow levels to add to the appeal.

Because the economics of a given scene are reduced because there's less drawings done ( if you move the character throughout a scene it takes more drawings) they can apply those highlights and shadows--something that prohibitive and time consuming for the western style of animating.

 

Is this the best thing for a GIJOE cartoon?? Who knows--the original series was done the anime way.

 

I'll have my doubts about the original rumour/claim until I see a industry source backing it up.

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Well if it's artists like him who's responsible for such bad CGI crap like Spytroops, then the Japanese aren't getting his job fast enough!

I don't do CGI Animation. I do storyboards.

 

Think of it as being like a director that draws.

CGI is still a new medium.

Its tough getting folks from 2D backgrounds to transition into it, because alot of 3D animators are coming in with little or no actual artistic background--and their knowledge of the software takes precedent over the artistic training most 2D animators have.

Just so that you know, I've been in this biz for 20 years, and I can tell you the CGI stuff will get better.

 

Oh, so you like characters that look like extras from an episode of Thunderbirds. Yeah, I can't imagine how I've been able to live all these years without G.I. Joe's cast being turned into computer animated talking dolls, with bad scripts, below average voice actors, and mediocre storylines so bad even the people who work at Troma Film Studios would be turned off.

 

You might not be aware that this could be Hasbro's fault.

The budget for Spytroops might have been very tight.

The production I'm storyboarding right now is CGI and it has a tight budget--that means that a lot of things can get short-changed and there's not always enough time or money to make the product "better".

I won't argue that the voice work for SPYTROOPS was pretty bad ( they got Snake-eyes right though), but the animation was spot on for what it was.

GIJOE is a toy line and the vehicles moved like toys--something I thought was brilliant. SPYTROOPS was intended to re-introduce kids to GIJOE-because GIJOE's presence in cinema has been lacking for over a decade. Sounds like a bold and cagey move to handle the animation the way they did.

So, yea, they might move stuff like a puppet show, but that's what CGI essentially is--virtual puppetry.

 

Gee what an enlightening point of view! Hey, maybe for next years CGI film Hasbro and Paramount can get the cast of the Jetsons to make a cameo, what with it supposed to be centered around B.A.T.s and all.

I can tell you about the processes, the industry, even the psychology of why it appeals to people.....but I cannot ( nor will I) tell you to like it.

How's that for enlightened?

 

CGI has its strengths, anime has them too, and so on and so on.

The original rumours been given my doubts, based on my expertise. Like I said, let's wait and see what's really going on before we decry anything.

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*sigh* The original gi joe miniseries and the movie can be considered an anime since it was done in a japanese studio with japanese style art; did some of the characters have big eyes?  I don't you guys need to complain

Does that mean that anything a Japanese person draws is anime? @hmmm@

 

The G.I. Joe cartoon was contracted out by Hasbro to target American audiences with a clearly western style of drawing. It was drawn by asians, but was NOT in the style of anime.

 

Get it right.

 

Tom

I'll look forward to a new Joe cartoon as well, regardless where it comes from.

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lol, I love how these so called insiders are taking credit for news released in a general PR back 8/10.

 

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/t...2.html&lp=ja_en

LOL. It sucks that they take the credit since ppl will believe they are insiders, then these guys can make whatever rumor they can think of just because ppl think they know a lot about the product.

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lol, I love how these so called insiders are taking credit for news released in a general PR back 8/10.

 

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/t...2.html&lp=ja_en

Hmn, well I'll be danged.

 

 

This is what I'd call "industry confirmation"--but its hardly inside info, as JayC said.

 

Apologies are still in order, I suppose.

 

Still, I'm curious to see what's done with this project now.

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Well if it's artists like him who's responsible for such bad CGI crap like Spytroops, then the Japanese aren't getting his job fast enough!

I don't do CGI Animation. I do storyboards.

 

Think of it as being like a director that draws.

CGI is still a new medium.

Its tough getting folks from 2D backgrounds to transition into it, because alot of 3D animators are coming in with little or no actual artistic background--and their knowledge of the software takes precedent over the artistic training most 2D animators have.

Just so that you know, I've been in this biz for 20 years, and I can tell you the CGI stuff will get better.

 

Oh, so you like characters that look like extras from an episode of Thunderbirds. Yeah, I can't imagine how I've been able to live all these years without G.I. Joe's cast being turned into computer animated talking dolls, with bad scripts, below average voice actors, and mediocre storylines so bad even the people who work at Troma Film Studios would be turned off.

 

You might not be aware that this could be Hasbro's fault.

The budget for Spytroops might have been very tight.

The production I'm storyboarding right now is CGI and it has a tight budget--that means that a lot of things can get short-changed and there's not always enough time or money to make the product "better".

I won't argue that the voice work for SPYTROOPS was pretty bad ( they got Snake-eyes right though), but the animation was spot on for what it was.

GIJOE is a toy line and the vehicles moved like toys--something I thought was brilliant. SPYTROOPS was intended to re-introduce kids to GIJOE-because GIJOE's presence in cinema has been lacking for over a decade. Sounds like a bold and cagey move to handle the animation the way they did.

So, yea, they might move stuff like a puppet show, but that's what CGI essentially is--virtual puppetry.

 

Gee what an enlightening point of view! Hey, maybe for next years CGI film Hasbro and Paramount can get the cast of the Jetsons to make a cameo, what with it supposed to be centered around B.A.T.s and all.

I can tell you about the processes, the industry, even the psychology of why it appeals to people.....but I cannot ( nor will I) tell you to like it.

How's that for enlightened?

 

CGI has its strengths, anime has them too, and so on and so on.

The original rumours been given my doubts, based on my expertise. Like I said, let's wait and see what's really going on before we decry anything.

Well Hasbro's current method of animating G.I. Joe in CGI format has done next to nothing of garnering the line any more attention, and if the CGI thing was done properly it might work but since it tanked and probably will again with Valor vs. Venom my hope is that Hasbro will put the reigns in a Japanese studio once again and G.I. Joe will regain the popularity it enjoyed when we were all growing up with it. Nothing is set in stone but I think a lot of people would agree with me in that the CGI thing just isn't working out.

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*sigh* The original gi joe miniseries and the movie can be considered an anime since it was done in a japanese studio with japanese style art; did some of the characters have big eyes?  I don't you guys need to complain

Does that mean that anything a Japanese person draws is anime? @hmmm@

 

The G.I. Joe cartoon was contracted out by Hasbro to target American audiences with a clearly western style of drawing. It was drawn by asians, but was NOT in the style of anime.

 

Get it right.

 

Tom

I know what I said and I am sticking with it. I meant that original GI joe had some anime influence such as giant eyes and other stuff. The art IMO can be compared to the Robotech series, therefore I said it was drawn int the form of anime. What is anime exactly? Is it character design, style or where it came from? Maybe people consider Spawn an anime, yet it is drawn in American disign with japanese violences by japanese artist. Some eps in the animatrix are completely american, yet it is called an anime.

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lol, I love how these so called insiders are taking credit for news released in a general PR back 8/10.

 

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/t...2.html&lp=ja_en

Hmn, well I'll be danged.

 

 

This is what I'd call "industry confirmation"--but its hardly inside info, as JayC said.

 

Apologies are still in order, I suppose.

 

Still, I'm curious to see what's done with this project now.

I can already answer that question, GONZO is going to take over production of the next slew of G.I. Joe OVAs and their going to knock everyone's socks off and usher in a new long running stretch of popularity for G.I. Joe that's going to make it explode across the board!

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lol, I love how these so called insiders are taking credit for news released in a general PR back 8/10.

 

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/t...2.html&lp=ja_en

Hmn, well I'll be danged.

 

 

This is what I'd call "industry confirmation"--but its hardly inside info, as JayC said.

 

Apologies are still in order, I suppose.

 

Still, I'm curious to see what's done with this project now.

I can already answer that question, GONZO is going to take over production of the next slew of G.I. Joe OVAs and their going to knock everyone's socks off and usher in a new long running stretch of popularity for G.I. Joe that's going to make it explode across the board!

I really hope so. Though I have to wonder how watered down a Joe anime would be. I mean picture the Valor vs Venom story as an anime. With Hasbro at the helm we probably won't get to see all the cool stuff (like guns that shoot bullets) that we want to see.

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Ah yes.

Animation without any stretch and squash, very little action-anticipations, held-head shots with just moving mouths, cliched anime facial expressions, overall limited-animation values, and likely way too many camera moves by half--all staples of anime, and all things that make for lousy "animation".

 

But it'll have nice background paintings.

 

...

 

 

Just to clarify something:

Anime doesn't really "animate" all that much. Its limited animation, making extensive use of held-cels and shots. Its very much like the limited animation styles on those Hanna Barbera Flintstone and Huckleberry Hound cartoons from the 1960's.

Fully animated cartoons would be something like Disney's features, or the Warner Bros. shorts.

What makes the cartoons appealing is the focus on good drawing with that limited animation--using highlights and shadow levels to add to the appeal.

Because the economics of a given scene are reduced because there's less drawings done ( if you move the character throughout a scene it takes more drawings) they can apply those highlights and shadows--something that prohibitive and time consuming for the western style of animating.

 

Is this the best thing for a GIJOE cartoon?? Who knows--the original series was done the anime way.

Wow!!

 

I may not agree with you on everything, Ken, but that was very well-stated. I've seen more than my fair share of anime... and while I believe there are a few decent anime shows out there, I think the genre/style as a whole gets way too much credit, for what it's worth.

 

Anyone convinced that anime is the best animation out there seriously needs to go out and see an old-school Disney flick... pre 1970s, back when animation was fuller, richer, and ripe with subtle human expression. Nowadays animation factories--not necessarily just the Japanese--churn out cartoons as if they were cheap plastic toys from Taiwan. Quality has undoubtedly been sacrificed to quantity.

 

But hey--that's not the topic at hand, is it? @razz@ I just had to give a thumbs-up to that little piece of insight. Having said all that, I don't think I'll surprise anyone when I say that I would rather not have an anime GI Joe cartoon, thank-you-very-much, if given a choice. Anime has advantages, like its reputation for handling darker and more mature storylines, but I don't think it's worth all the other characteristics of the genre.

 

Who knows... maybe, if all of this goes through, some wonderful fluke will happen and we'll get a kickass show everybody loves. And maybe Tom Brady will show up at my door tomorrow and propose. I do prefer to think optimistically. Hey... anything could happen! @lol@

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With Hasbro at the helm we probably won't get to see all the cool stuff (like guns that shoot bullets) that we want to see.

Well, Batman:TAS had the guns and bullets thing [i always liked the sounds gunfire and explosions in the show], so GI Joe could too. They were willing to let the game have bullets too, the violence just doesn't have to be graphic. And if anything, they could always handle it like they did Batman.

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Anyone convinced that anime is the best animation out there seriously needs to go out and see an old-school Disney flick... pre 1970s, back when animation was fuller, richer, and ripe with subtle human expression. Nowadays animation factories--not necessarily just the Japanese--churn out cartoons as if they were cheap plastic toys from Taiwan. Quality has undoubtedly been sacrificed to quantity.

Samus--

 

This is primarily the case of animation being done "pose-to-pose", whereas the older styles of animation where mostly done "straight ahead".

Pose-to-pose means that the animator decides on key poses to work his animation towards, so that there are strong drawings that provide landmarks that either stay as they are or get changed depending on how the animation is going.

Straight-Ahead animation means the animator starts with drawing one and just goes"straight ahead" working through the scene in sequence.

Nowadays, the two methods are employed soley based upon the animators own whims/preferences.

 

I've worked both ways, and they both have their uses and their limitations.

Anime is predominatly pose-to-pose, as is any limited animation. This is out of necessity, as any TV animation production is always under time constraints. Limited animation, starting as far back as the UPA shorts and embraced by Hanna Barbera for all their prime-time cartoons meant that animation could be affordably done for TV. Doing it "feature style--with that lush timing and secondary action was too time-consuming and expensive for TV. and remains that way even to this day.

 

Well, Batman:TAS had the guns and bullets thing [i always liked the sounds gunfire and explosions in the show], so GI Joe could too.

 

8Speed--

 

GIJOE could if Hasbro will it so, but GIJOE is a "sensitive" case right out the gate. Almost by default, military themes imply violence, and soldiers carry weaponry, again, implying violence. TV violence is a major issue for networks, and productions and very very much so for childrens programming. Some markets are very sensitive about violent content, others less so.

The laser guns are a smart concession towards the weaponry, because "real" firepower could make the cartoon very controversial.

Shows like Batman never showed anyone actually being shot, nor the shooter and "shot-at" in the same image. Its a fine line, and the producers had to fight for every instance. Some shows don't have that kind of fight in them and they play it safer.

 

A perfect example of an Anime that took this too far is Transformers: Armada, the characters moved once or twice an episode, and most of the time, it was simply them skating across the screen with a multicolored background behind them

 

Dolphin-sagger--

 

By contrast, I watched Transformers the movie just last night and it did the opposite: too much movement.

There's a certain practical limitation with animation, certain kinds of things work and certain things don't work. Mechanical items of great complexity being rotated in space seldom work--usually because in addition to the object the entire setting out to the horizon often needs to be animated as well. Shots of spaceships crashing and plowing up large debris sprays might look impress because there's lots of movement, but it means that all that movement have to be animated.

The space ship has one set of timing to itself, the rending metal another, the debris chunks all have seperate timing based on size. Larger chunks move at different rates than smaller chunks.

There's dust clouds as well, and shadow/highlight layers on top of all this.....its means there's not just secondary animation, but tertiary, and so on up.....its a huge undertaking for just one scene, and with 2D animation there used to be practical limits to the layers of animation that were possible, thus is was done in as few layers as possible.

This can explain why it might look bad at times.

 

Anything that moves, needs drawings to account for that movement. The more "pencil mileage" a scene has--being a full figure in motion--the longer it takes and the more it costs.

Holding the figure, but moving just a arm, or a mouth creates the "semblance of motion" thus the semblance of some life and thus can hold the interest of an audience.

Timing is everything and its a near science has to how long a pose can be held with absolutely no movement (usually around 4 seconds, or 96 frames) or very minimal movement--such as in anime's staggered vibro-twitch that a lot of characters seem to show when they are anxious.

If a image is held to long, it becomes obvious to an audience that they are looking at a drawing and the "magic" of animation is dispelled.

Addressing this all comes down to costs.

 

The old Marvel Superhero were very limited (and CHEAP) animation cartoons, often little more than comic panels blown up to 12 field size and just shot on camera. Add a spin to a image and it appears to move.

Its like sliding a paper cut-out ( or a Armada Transformer) across the screen and calling it animation.

It is, but only in the furthest, slyest sense of the term.

The drawing maybe lovely all in itself, but its not moving.......animae can be like that, if its done cheaply.

 

 

What this new GIJOE cartoon actually looks like, or moves like, comes down to one thing: its budget. More money to it means it'll look better and fulfill Mekk Z's hopes. Less money means it'll live down to my cynicism.

 

We'll see in about a year or so.

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i'd like to clear something up. Anime does NOT mean that it was animated in Japan. The word anime in Japan is short for animeshon which merely refers to anything animated. Hence a Disney movie in Japan would be known as anime.

 

However in North America, the term "anime" seems to only refer to Japanese animation.

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Personally, I really can't pick a side just yet. I'd have to see what this new Joe cartoon looks like before I pass judgement. (seems like a novel idea to me) But hey, I understand if everyone wants to criticize and make offensive remarks before they every see a single cell of animation. I don't know why people were trying to jump on the Japanese as a people because of their drawings. And I have no clue why people tried to jump on ARROW when all he wanted to do was give us some insight to the animation industry. Whatever. I'll just wait and see if we ever get this cartoon, or if it ends up as another one of Hasbro's cancelled projects that leave us wanting more. Then, I'll pass judgement one way or the other.

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This question is for Mekk Z, and really should have been asked sooner:

 

 

What has GONZO done that makes them so "qualified" in your opinion, to take on GIJOE?

Have they done something recognizable that can veiwed over here?

I'd like to see what they have done to assess their work on my own.

 

I'm curious, because I've done work ( Wing Commander Academy) that ended up at Japanese studios like Mad House, who handled the stuff with skill and aplomb and really lent something to it. If GONZO is something like Mad House, their take on GIJOE could be kind of interesting.

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Second, i'd like to clear something up. Anime does NOT mean that it was animated in Japan. The word anime in Japan is short for animeshon which merely refers to anything animated. Hence a Disney movie in Japan would be known as anime.

 

However in North America, the term "anime" seems to only refer to Japanese animation.

 

 

I've heard of this definition as well.

The common western usage/interpretation of what is "anime" means cartoons that comes from Japan with that distinctive group of styles and animation that is unlike western cartoons. Its a label for a visual distinction.

I've been hearing the term " Japanime" also applied as well over the past few years.

Here, they are just called cartoons, and to the western public, cartoons are for children's consumption.

Anime fits in a different class than mere cartoons, because its understood that its demographic extends from childhood to adults, given the breath of its subject matter.

Lumping something like Pokemon in with Legend of the Overfiend, or Ninja Scroll as all being cartoons hardly seems to fit. I guess one can take the term anime as a term of complimentary acknowledgement that the Japanese cartoon is often quite more sophisticated than what's made over here.

This begs a question now for anyone to ponder: what would a CGI "cartoon" be then--it seems odd to call it a cartoon?

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