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Adm. Janeway


dakullprt
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She got promoted sometime after Voyager returned home, and before the events in Nemesis - a two year period. My guess is it happened almost immediately after Voyager's return. Though I'm not entirely sure, I believe she's a vice admiral. If I remember correctly, she had three gold pips within a rectangle, which I believe signifies vice admiral. Finally, the rank of Commodore hasn't been seen since TOS, so no, they don't use it anymore.

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Actually its ridiculous. Im pretty sure Voyager was Janeways first command, they were only in the Delta Quad for like 5 yrs. During Kirks day it was standard for a starship to go on 5 year missions so its not like they were gone for some extremly long period of time by Starfleet standards. Yeah a medal and comendation would be appropriate for getting home but a promotion to Admiral that soon in here career seems kinda ridculous. It took Kirk alot longer to become and Admiral and Picrad still isnt an Admiral and both did alot more for the federation than she did. If its that easy or Starfleet is so quick to promote people to Admirals, its no wonder you have so many of them go bad. Lets not forget that Janeway broke numerouse Starfleet regulations to get home including the temporal prime directive.

 

Anyway the answer is shortly after Voyager ended and Nemesis started. The sole reason for her so called promotion was so they could giver here a cheesey excuss to have a cameo in Nemesis though orginally they wanted 7of9 to do the cameo but she declined cause she was off doing that teacher show on Fox at the time, so they went with Janeway as the back-up.

 

Commodore rank was retired during Kirk's time.

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Picard has been offered the rank of Admiral on

numerous occasions, but he refuses each time. He

would rather serve on deck as captain. I was one day hoping

that he would become Admiral Picard though and see Data as

a full commander, Heck..everyone should have been promoted in Nemesis.

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Actually its ridiculous. Im pretty sure Voyager was Janeways first command, they were only in the Delta Quad for like 5 yrs. During Kirks day it was standard for a starship to go on 5 year missions so its not like they were gone for some extremly long period of time by Starfleet standards. Yeah a medal and comendation would be appropriate for getting home but a promotion to Admiral that soon in here career seems kinda ridculous. It took Kirk alot longer to become and Admiral and Picrad still isnt an Admiral and both did alot more for the federation than she did. If its that easy or Starfleet is so quick to promote people to Admirals, its no wonder you have so many of them go bad. Lets not forget that Janeway broke numerouse Starfleet regulations to get home including the temporal prime directive.

 

Anyway the answer is shortly after Voyager ended and Nemesis started. The sole reason for her so called promotion was so they could giver here a cheesey excuss to have a cameo in Nemesis though orginally they wanted 7of9 to do the cameo but she declined cause she was off doing that teacher show on Fox at the time, so they went with Janeway as the back-up.

 

Commodore rank was retired during Kirk's time.

Im pretty sure Voyager was Janeways first command, they were only in the Delta Quad for like 5 yrs. During Kirks day it was standard for a starship to go on 5 year missions so its not like they were gone for some extremly long period of time by Starfleet standards.
Actually, they were in the DQ for 7 years. Also keep in mind that Kirk was promoted to admiral after his five year mission, and I'm pretty sure the Enterprise was his first command, as well. Personally, I agree that the promotion ladder seems to get climbed pretty fast in Star Trek (except for ENSIGN Harry Kim - poor guy). But since that seems how they do things in Starfleet, it stands to reason that Janeway was pretty deserving. Not only did she bring back her ship way ahead of schedule with minimal losses, she crippled the Borg doing it! Yea, the Borg have an endless supply of Borg Queens, but it can't be good for the Collective to lose one. Not only that, the virus she released infected numerous drones, and one of their Transwarp Gates was destroyed by Janeway. Not to mention her aiding of Unimatrix Zero the season prior. All of her other accomplishments aside, I'd say bringing the Federation's worst enemy to its knees deserves a lot of recognition. So even if her promotion was quick, which I'd more or less agree, her accomplishments should not be sold short.

 

As for breaking regulations, every captain has, most notably Kirk. But like with Kirk, Starfleet doesn't mind looking the other way when the safety of the Federation is at stake - and neither should the audience.

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Well,since the Janeway question has been fielded,I'm taking on the Commodore question. No,it wasn't retired during TOS. Believe it or not,I saw it among the other ranks in a TNG book. Five of the rank pips for Commodore. That was about fourteen years ago. If they still use it,I have no idea.

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IIRC, the rank of Commodore signified a planetary, or non-spaceborne command.

 

Thus the head of Starfleet academy would be a Commodore, or whoever assumed command of Farpoint Station.

Commodore Mendez, from the episode the Menagerie, was CO of a planetary base.

 

Space stations like DeepSpace Nine, the Epsilon series outposts, or the K series outposts would have a Fleet officer of Commander /Captain or Admiral grade depending on the base's importance.

The rank of Commodore is a special grade falling directly between that of Captain and the lowest Admiral rank--its space-borne equivilant would be Fleet Captain ( whom Garth of Izar was)

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As for breaking regulations, every captain has, most notably Kirk. But like with Kirk, Starfleet doesn't mind looking the other way when the safety of the Federation is at stake - and neither should the audience.

Only if the audience takes everything given them unquestioningly and are incapable of seeing a larger picture. What the audience needs to do is QUESTION bad writing and THINK, not beleiveevery action by a Captain automatically needs to be excused because the show has the Star Trek label on it. The greater good accomplished by Kirk, Picard and Sisko do can in no ways be compared to what Janeway did out there.

 

Bending the rules is one thing, but Janeway was reckless with it. Her actions condemned at least TWO sentient alien species to genocide. Once when she made a deal with the Borg against Species 8472 she removed the ONLY blockade preventing the Borg from assimilating an entire solar system and the encounter with the Silver Blood aliens resulted in the death of the entire species when they decided to go out into space themselves. Does this not MEAN anything? In case this isnt sinking it, Innocent lives SUFFERED. In order to save a few hundred measly crewmen at least ONE entire sentient species was condemned to the Hell of assimilation. God knows how many others now the balance of power between 8472 and The Borg has been destroyed by Janeway's meddling. To defend her is reprehensible when you consider the big picture of her activities.

 

 

Kirk and Picard merely bent the rules, with the result being a greater good for all concerned. When Janeway outright broke them often times SOMEBODY suffered for it. She unfairly demotes Tuvok and Paris, even when Paris saved countless lives. To top it off she turned around and broke the Prime Diretive the very next spisode to ferry a handfull of refugees. Only when SHE does it is it perfectly all right. When Sisko commited his actions during the Dominion War, it was to protect the entire Federation and the trillions of lives in it. When Janeway got people killed, it was to save her own oily hide. Usually just the ship was at stake.

 

 

Not only did she wantonly violate the rules, she did a crappy job of it. Here is a comprehensive list of the attrocities Janeway has committed to the Delta Quadrant. She shouldnt only be court-marshalled, she ought to be given the chair. She's been so derelict in her duty it's not funny. When Starfleet gets out there in 20 years they may well have to deal with a LOT of angry races because of Janeway.

 

 

The way I see it, Janeway's exploits WERE well known throughout the Alpha Quadrant. Since there are people stupid enough nowadays to beleive the garbage Micheal Moore and Al Franken puts out today, its not too hard to envision the great unwashed of the Federation not getting the full story and considering her a hero. Thus any sort of disciplinary action might be met with extremely horrible backlash. So they "Reward" her with the promotion just to shut the numbskulls of the Federation up. HOWEVER the reality is theyre punishing her by putting her behind a desk so she'll never be at the command of a Starship again and they can keep her out of trouble. Her role now is to relay OTHER starship captains orders, and she'll envy each and every assignment she gives because she knows she'll never be able to do them again. An ironic punishment even Dante would be impressed with.

 

 

 

Breaking regulations are one thing. The CONSEQUENCES of them however are whats important.

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If I recall right I remember hearing in an episode of Star Trek: Voyager that Janeway commanded two starships prior to Voyager. I distinctly remember a comment about Tuvok having been one of Janeway's senior bridge crew where she met him prior to Voyager. Of course I think making her an admiral so quickly after the return from the Delta Quadrant is a little too quick. Picard has saved countless planets, and the universe itself from the anti-time phenomenon, and he hasn't been made an admiral for those services. Of course look who controls the Trek franchise nowadays. Many "creative changes" in Trek have been made since Gene passed on.

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  • 2 weeks later...

As a Navy guy, here's my opinions:

 

For Janeway, I'll defer to Admiral Arex and Doc Evil's responses. Both of these are completely plausible. Not everyone is promoted because they deserve it, but Janeway did quite a bit for her crew AND the Federation with basically no support FROM the Federation, being as they were pretty much isolated in the Delta Quadrant (And, Hordak Alpha, remember: nobody but Picard remembers the "Anti-time" incident)

 

 

Where rank structure is concerned, Commodore used to refer to RADM lower half, but no longer. Commodore is nowadays mostly reserved to address the most senior Captains.

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but Janeway did quite a bit for her crew AND the Federation with basically no support FROM the Federation, being as they were pretty much isolated in the Delta Quadrant

Doesnt change the fact that ENTIRE RACES died because of her, not to mention the endangerment of the entire galaxy

 

 

Or the botched Omega Directive. Remember that? Alien sicentists were trying to create particles that if mismanaged could eradicate the lives of the ENTIRE galaxy, at the very least. The Omega Directive demands that knowledge of Omega and how to create it must be destroyed along with the particles themselves, but Janeway half-assed the assignment and left the facilities intact enough so research could re-commence.

 

She gave the Hirogen holodeck technology which spawned holographic creatures that killed MANY innocents.

 

She offered a hostile paranoid race called the Kesat info about all the other spacefaring races around them

 

Janeway ordered a brainwashing satellite that made people hallucinate a massacre to remain intact. This will no doubt cripple crews of other starships that venture by.

 

She unleashed one of the deadliest races ever known in Delta Quardant history, the Vaadwaur from cryrogenic sleep without making even the TINIEST efforts to research first. Common sense would dictate that if you find something in cold sleep, odds are that there may be a REASON behind it. Who knows what will happen by the time Federation Starships make it back out there.

 

SHe tried to willingly murder the First Officer of the Equinox in cold blood for endangering and exploiting innocent life forms. What she should have done was throw him in the brig to stand trial. Who died and made HER judge, jury and executioner, especially after what SHE'S done?

 

Not having contact with Starfleet JUSTIFIES all this? (And much more) How pray tell? The reason her poor crew got stranded out there in the first place is because Janeway willingly and knowingly DEFIED Starfleet orders. Her isolation doesnt excuse the damage inflicted by her actions. She did two things for the Federation: Jack and S#it. And Jack beamed out. Any possible good has been pretty much overshadowed by her incompetence. Anyone who can think rationally ought to be able to see this.

 

Sure her crew survived, but how many people were on the ship? a few hundred? And by that token, how many people got assimilated by the Borg without 8472 there to hold them back? Probably BILLIONS. Id say the needs of the comparitive few should not outweigh the needs of the many.

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Janeway also defied Starfleet on another occasion. In a future timeline Admiral Janeway went against Starfleet orders and traveled backward through time to prevent mass attrocites on the Voyager and help make the ship return home sooner than the 23 years it took in her time. She did successfully save the ship and crew and sent the Voyager through the Borg sub- space corridors to Earth. She, along with her younger counter part, were insturmental in destroying the Borg sub-space corridor hampering the Borg's plans of even faster travel across the galaxy. She also helped bring the Voyager back to Federation space and altered her time line.

 

 

So even though I personally don't like Janeway she did do one good thing. Voyager was never one of my favorite shows anyway.

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but Janeway did quite a bit for her crew AND the Federation with basically no support FROM the Federation, being as they were pretty much isolated in the Delta Quadrant

Doesnt change the fact that ENTIRE RACES died because of her, not to mention the endangerment of the entire galaxy

 

 

Or the botched Omega Directive. Remember that? Alien sicentists were trying to create particles that if mismanaged could eradicate the lives of the ENTIRE galaxy, at the very least. The Omega Directive demands that knowledge of Omega and how to create it must be destroyed along with the particles themselves, but Janeway half-assed the assignment and left the facilities intact enough so research could re-commence.

 

She gave the Hirogen holodeck technology which spawned holographic creatures that killed MANY innocents.

 

She offered a hostile paranoid race called the Kesat info about all the other spacefaring races around them

 

Janeway ordered a brainwashing satellite that made people hallucinate a massacre to remain intact. This will no doubt cripple crews of other starships that venture by.

 

She unleashed one of the deadliest races ever known in Delta Quardant history, the Vaadwaur from cryrogenic sleep without making even the TINIEST efforts to research first. Common sense would dictate that if you find something in cold sleep, odds are that there may be a REASON behind it. Who knows what will happen by the time Federation Starships make it back out there.

 

SHe tried to willingly murder the First Officer of the Equinox in cold blood for endangering and exploiting innocent life forms. What she should have done was throw him in the brig to stand trial. Who died and made HER judge, jury and executioner, especially after what SHE'S done?

 

Not having contact with Starfleet JUSTIFIES all this? (And much more) How pray tell? The reason her poor crew got stranded out there in the first place is because Janeway willingly and knowingly DEFIED Starfleet orders. Her isolation doesnt excuse the damage inflicted by her actions. She did two things for the Federation: Jack and S#it. And Jack beamed out. Any possible good has been pretty much overshadowed by her incompetence. Anyone who can think rationally ought to be able to see this.

 

Sure her crew survived, but how many people were on the ship? a few hundred? And by that token, how many people got assimilated by the Borg without 8472 there to hold them back? Probably BILLIONS. Id say the needs of the comparitive few should not outweigh the needs of the many.

 

Maybe. Again, Janeway did things in Starfleet's best interest (back to that whole "not everyone deserves their promotion") like defeating the Borg, whereas Picard became a Borg and destroyed almost 40 Federation ships and something like 11,000 Starfleet members, and yet he still commands Starfleet's flagship? I don't know, I just take it all with a grain of salt.

 

Admittedly, Doc, I never actually saw the entire series. The first 2 seasons, and the last 2 episodes, with maybe some intermitten episodes inbetween, so I know I'm not working with all the facts, so I'll reserve further judgement until I've seen some more shows. :)

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but Janeway did quite a bit for her crew AND the Federation with basically no support FROM the Federation, being as they were pretty much isolated in the Delta Quadrant

Doesnt change the fact that ENTIRE RACES died because of her, not to mention the endangerment of the entire galaxy

 

 

Or the botched Omega Directive. Remember that? Alien sicentists were trying to create particles that if mismanaged could eradicate the lives of the ENTIRE galaxy, at the very least. The Omega Directive demands that knowledge of Omega and how to create it must be destroyed along with the particles themselves, but Janeway half-assed the assignment and left the facilities intact enough so research could re-commence.

 

She gave the Hirogen holodeck technology which spawned holographic creatures that killed MANY innocents.

 

She offered a hostile paranoid race called the Kesat info about all the other spacefaring races around them

 

Janeway ordered a brainwashing satellite that made people hallucinate a massacre to remain intact. This will no doubt cripple crews of other starships that venture by.

 

She unleashed one of the deadliest races ever known in Delta Quardant history, the Vaadwaur from cryrogenic sleep without making even the TINIEST efforts to research first. Common sense would dictate that if you find something in cold sleep, odds are that there may be a REASON behind it. Who knows what will happen by the time Federation Starships make it back out there.

 

SHe tried to willingly murder the First Officer of the Equinox in cold blood for endangering and exploiting innocent life forms. What she should have done was throw him in the brig to stand trial. Who died and made HER judge, jury and executioner, especially after what SHE'S done?

 

Not having contact with Starfleet JUSTIFIES all this? (And much more) How pray tell? The reason her poor crew got stranded out there in the first place is because Janeway willingly and knowingly DEFIED Starfleet orders. Her isolation doesnt excuse the damage inflicted by her actions. She did two things for the Federation: Jack and S#it. And Jack beamed out. Any possible good has been pretty much overshadowed by her incompetence. Anyone who can think rationally ought to be able to see this.

 

Sure her crew survived, but how many people were on the ship? a few hundred? And by that token, how many people got assimilated by the Borg without 8472 there to hold them back? Probably BILLIONS. Id say the needs of the comparitive few should not outweigh the needs of the many.

Also,wasn't she involved with that whole mess with the Q Continuum? That civil war they had or whatever that was.

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Man forget all that, if I were in her position, I'd do all I could do to get my ass back home. Maybe not Cpt. Ransom hardcore, but somewhere inbetween.

 

Funny how Janeway would go on her little monologues in the earlier season about following Starfleet rules all the time; then do all she did in the years after.

 

 

 

And as far as giving the Borg the nanoprobes to defeat Species 8472; it's like she said, by her estimation, 8472 was more dangerous. Things like obliterating the Borg in battles like they were nothing and saying stuff like "the weak will perish" and "we will purge your galaxy" [or something like that] probably made that decision a little easier.

 

'Cause after 8472 was done with the Borg, they probably would've finished off the rest of the galaxy with no problems. I doubt Voyager could make enough nanoprobes to kill off all of 8472.

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Well, Im sure the folks assimilated in that system would feel really comforted by that. If feelings like that were still possible for them of course...

 

And Species 8472 got the typical Berman neutering so them being a threat wouldnt ever happen.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The problem everyone has with Janeway is the fact that she was a strong female leader and that threatens the masculinity of some. I don't think either Picard or Kirk would have handle situations much differently. Janeway may have made mistakes, but then again who hasn't? People require her to be perfect while forgiving the mistakes of her male counterparts. She had other Star Fleet commands prior to Voyager and they weren't trapped in the Delta quadrant for a violation of Star Fleet rules in case you missed it she was there dur to the Caretaker's array. As far as the Omega directive goes she had to reveal the problem to her senior officers as she lacked the support of Star Fleet. Janeway's, as with anyother Star ship captian, first priority was the safety of the crew she commanded. People effect everything around them and the appearence of Voyager in the Delta quadrant was no different. Star Fleet was in a quadrant that they probably wouldnot have been in for several decades without Voyager. And while she ruffled a few feathers she also brokered hundreds of peace treaties and futhered Star Fleet interest in the Delta quadrant. She brought valuable maps and scientific discoveries back to Star Fleet with her not to mention the technology. She was most deserving of the promotion and I do not think it was intended as a punishment for Janeway herself mentioned in an episode or two her desire to be Admiral. Picard refused the post of Admiral several times that was his choice not the choice of Star Fleet. So before anyone goes off on a tangent to beat Janeway down with the phallis between there legs why don't you ask yourself how you would have handled the situations she was in yourself. At any rate at least Janeway had a variety of situations that tested her charater and resolve unlike Cisco who simply got lost in the monotony of battling the Dominion.

 

Shadow

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If Kirk had been in command they would have gotten home at the end of the first episode.

 

My problem with Janeway is that thye could have gone home in the pilot, but it would have violated the Prime Directive. She would not allow that, but then later she says the Prime Directive doesn't apply out here. Really? Then why the hell didn't they go home?

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Since everyone bends the rules once in a while [alot for some], I cut her slack. And even moreso since she was in the situation she was in.

 

Thankfully, as the series went on, she stopped having her little monologues about "following Starfleet regulations"... blah... blah.. blah... Just shut up and blow something up already.

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No, the problem most people had with Janeway was that she was an incompetent twit. Most people can see it.

 

Allow me to remind you to take the rose colored glasses off and see things as they truly are. This notion that Janeway can do no wrong is illogical.

First of all I never said that Janeway could do no wrong. In fact I admitted that she did in fact make mistakes as all humans do. I simply said that if you view her with the same "glasses" you view Kirk and Picard then you would see that she was no better and certainly no worst. Yes, Kirk would have been home in the first episode, he would have violated the prime directive and probably killed the Caretaker doing it. Then we would have all been here cheering the Great Captain Kirk as a hero and paying no attention to his violation of Star Fleet protocol. As for you link to the supposed Court Martial that is an extrapilation that is not based on fact. There is no mention of a court martial in either Voyager or Nemisis or really anything other than commendations for Janeway's valor. Really I this the misogyistic view of Janeway is old.

 

Shadow

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First off, the word is misogynistic

 

Second of all It has nothing to do her her damn gender. It has to do with her competence. If Janeway committed the exact same stuff as a man I would be every bit as critical. In fact the only reason Im not AS critical of Archer is he hasnt had seven whole years to screw things up yet. But beleive me, I think he's pretty close to Janeways level of screwiness.

 

I assure you, when it comes to trashing bozos, I am 110% equal opportunity.

 

In fact, when I heard that the Captain of Voyager was going to be a woman, I thought "Neat". But in the end it was her actions that led me to dislike the character. It had absoultely nothing to do with the fact she needs to sit down to pee.

 

And for the record, I rather liked Elizabeth Locchley on Babylon 5 and found her to be a more intelligent and respectable Captain than Wrongway Janeway.

 

 

 

As for Kirk, he's handled situations without killing before. In fact its more likely that he would have tried to bluff his way or outwit the Caretaker. He's pulled rabbits out of his hat in even more dire, apparently hopeless situations little to no cost to his crew or opponents. It would even be more likely he could make the Caretaker an offer he couldnt refuse that resulted in an arrangement that was better for all concerned, even the Caretaker. Like in the "Gamesters of Triskelon". While Kirk wont hesitate to fire a shot when he needs to, he DOES have other methods of operation.

 

 

As for you link to the supposed Court Martial that is an extrapilation that is not based on fact.

 

Acctually it is based on fact. Well, as much fact as you can winess in a fictional show. Each of those actions DID INDEED happen in one episode or another. The charges are quite valid and logical. The point isis that Janeway, throughout her carreer in the Delta Quadrant made chioces that negatively affected the lives of many innocents. Just because she was cut off from Starfleet is no excuse to violate. No matter where you go right and wrong are still right and wrong, even if the rules allow for it. Kirk may have bent the rules, as did Picard. But neither of their actions resulted in the deaths of entire races either for that matter.

 

 

There is no mention of a court martial in either Voyager or Nemisis or really anything other than commendations for Janeway's valor.

 

Valor. Pffft. Well no duh they werent mentioned in Nemesis, it was written by the same pinheads that were behind everything Wrongway Janeway. Do you honestly think Janeway's creators are gonna let her be shown in any light that was less than positive? Logically Janeways actions WOULD have her court-marshalled. But when the men responsible for her exploits are not governed by logic, it doesnt matter. They just expect the fans to sweep it under the rug and accept whats given to them without question. Sadly it seems they are justified in that belief.

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