Non Neon Wave 2 Prototypes.

[Ren]

Very true, although the first few years of both toy lines actually were the best (altough the armada and energon are a close second). That's not based on demographics, just truth. You can't honestly tell me that a toxo or techno viper were superior to a BAT v1, snow serpent v1 or a crimson guard.

[Spike]

Even though the colors are bad, I can't wait for this wave to be released.

[Ren]

Even though the colors are gay , I can't wait for this wave to be released.

Your mastery of the english language astounds and amazes me. @loll@ @loll@

[Marvel_Joe_Spider]

Even though the colors are gay , I can't wait for this wave to be released.

Your mastery of the english language astounds and amazes me. @loll@ @loll@

Ditto

[Doom Saber]

I think monkey boy has the authority to like whatever he likes. I mean, living in a place like north cali(I know I am going to bash since I live near two open minded cities), I think everyone should like gi joe for their own opinions. For me, GVC seems so-so, I mean the less detail mold, the screwed up martial arts uniform(people usually wear the gi left over right and not vice versa) is a con for me and some of the joes are garbage, but I still like the line. I probably fit in more of the military uniform catogory(spell,) Because GVC/rah fits fantasy more than military(the whole concept of having 500 plus "army" people in a covert ops like team doesn't make sence to me,) the whole odd joes and whatever doesn't bother me much thought it's all odd.

[CLAM]

 

i think that's a little pretentious to say. and by that i mean, extremely pretentious to say. just because gi joe started out as drab military figures that all look the same, doesn't mean that's what they're "all about". and you were very selective in your response. you said "early 90s" i assume you're thinking 93, 94 when joes went crazy neon...but i specifically said "late 80s, early 90s" which clearly states what joe era i belong to. in my opinion the best joes come from the late 80s, when there was just the right mix of fantasy and reality.

 

if you've been hating joes for the past 17 years, why are you still collecting them? newsflash: joes will never go back to being skinny, plain, drab colored, 100% military figures where each figure uses 90% of another figure's parts. if you've been waiting for that since 1987, you are a sad sad man.

 

it is entirely snobby and stupid to say that i have no idea what joe is about simply because i prefer the joes of the late 80s over the joes of the early to mid 80s. if this board is that elitist, i can't imagine why you still collect joes at all.

well.. like somebody already said, only 1982 figures had drab paint jobs and used each other's parts.

 

and since then, they were never skinny, plain, or drab. sure, they didn't look like muscle-bound gorillas with Rainbow Bright colors, but they weren't boring like you are claiming.

 

and fact of the matter is, 83-87 is when everything you know today as GiJoe came about.. when people think about GiJoe characters, they think of characters that were born during that era. They had the best cartoons, comics, toys.. etc.

 

personally, I liked Gijoe up until at least 92.. and again in 97/98, and then again with the RAHC in 2000-01.

 

 

I wasn't meaning to insult you, but because you missed the "glory years" of GiJoe, I can't really take your opinion on the matter as equal to others. Sure, you can like what you like, but when you state your opinions on the older stuff, I can't consider it fully.. you never had those figures and vehicles in your hands from the shelf to your home..

 

its like hearing somebody say that Episode 1 is what StarWars is all about and insulting the original trilogy for lacking goofy crap.

[LT. Quintero]

they still look like Rainbow Bright's pals... not much of an improvement

LOL

[Mister C]

Parts were still swapped after 1983, just not as often as in the first batch of figures. Anywhoo, I am pleased to see that hard drive's straps are brown and not bright yellow. He looks much better now.

[DarthJoe]

i think that's a little pretentious to say. and by that i mean, extremely pretentious to say. just because gi joe started out as drab military figures that all look the same, doesn't mean that's what they're "all about".

 

I don't think it's "pretentious" at all. A "drab military" line, that all looked the same? @lol@ If you're strictly talking 1982, then I might agree with you.

 

However, figures like Blowtorch, Firefly, Storm Shadow, Spirit, Alpine, Barbecue, The Crimson Guard, EELS, Shipwreck, Snow Serpents, Snake Eyes, Lifeline, Low-Light, Beachhead, etc, were all very original and unique characters that didn't cross the boundary of looking "cartoony," overly-flambouyant, or down-right eyesores. Even the more "colorful" Joes stuck to the basic fundamentals of what colors fit well together...such as yellow and red. NEVER did you see a Joe with Pea-Green, Maroon, Orange, Grey, and Brown all crammed into one figure. These are the colors of puke, and Hasbro's creative teams realized it back then.

 

Seriously, compare the '85 version of Alpine to the new version. The old Alpine was unique, and at the same time very realistic, without coming off as one of the Village People with a rope wrapped around their shoulder, as the new Alpine does. I won't even touch the accessories, as any moron will realize that the old characters came with new, character appropriate accessories, while the new lines can hardly hold a candle to what the accessories of RAH were all about.

 

Now, a few questions:

 

What do you think kicked off the RAH line? What do you think carried it into the early 90's.

 

Once you've answered those questions, answer these:

 

What do you think ended the RAH line? What killed it?

 

Hint: Look at how RAH started off and how it ended. Now, look at the direction JvC/VvV is going. @wink@

 

and you were very selective in your response. you said "early 90s" i assume you're thinking 93, 94 when joes went crazy neon...but i specifically said "late 80s, early 90s" which clearly states what joe era i belong to. in my opinion the best joes come from the late 80s, when there was just the right mix of fantasy and reality.

 

Okay, let's say I agree with you and compare the Joes of the late 80's/early 90's to the crap pictured in the link above.

 

'89 Alley Viper: Orange, Blue and Black color scheme...colors that don't clash with one another. Possibly one of my favorite Joe's as a kid. His weapons where awesome, he had the flip-up face mask, a unique shield that matched his colors, a unique gun, and an awesome backpack.

 

Downtown: Sure, this guy has an off-beat color scheme...but his weapons redeem him. And, even though his colors were slightly offbeat...they were still half-way realistic. C'mon, whats not to like about a figure that comes with a .357 mag, a helmet, and a mortar gun w/ a backpack that holds the shells? What JvC figure has this originality?

 

'89 SE and Rock 'n' Roll: Is a description necessary here?

 

Bullhorn, Freefall, Undertow: Must I go through this again? They were all very realistically colored figures, with original accessories that fit their primary military specialty. They were not cartoony, and you could tell what purpose they served for their side by looking at them.

 

if you've been hating joes for the past 17 years, why are you still collecting them? newsflash: joes will never go back to being skinny, plain, drab colored, 100% military figures where each figure uses 90% of another figure's parts. if you've been waiting for that since 1987, you are a sad sad man.

 

I don't think Clam was saying that he has hated GI Joe for the last 17 years, he was just acknowledging that it peaked somewhere around '86 or '87, and went downhill from there. Even if you liked many, if not all, of the figures beyond that point, that is where RAH steadily declined from the #1 toyline in many kids eyes, to nothing but utter crap. That is exactly where JvC/VvV is taking us, in not so many years.

 

Myself, and I have a feeling I speak for others, RAH died in my mind the day I saw "sound attack backpacks," Ninja Force, neon figures, etc. And, be it a coincidence or not, that is where RAH died too.

 

And where did this "each figure uses 90% of another figure's parts" BS come from? Most of the figures, pre-1987 didn't use the legs, arms, waist pieces, heads, ect from other molds. They were all new...unlike JvC. If you're going to make an argument, at least get your facts straight.

 

it is entirely snobby and stupid to say that i have no idea what joe is about simply because i prefer the joes of the late 80s over the joes of the early to mid 80s. if this board is that elitist, i can't imagine why you still collect joes at all.

 

@rolleye@

 

Dude...we disagree with you and you call us "snobby and stupid elitists?" If Ninja Force, ECO-Warriors, Sound Attack, etc made GI Joe what it is for you today, then more power to you. But, I would have to say that a good 75% of GI Joe fans were there between '82 and '87, and that is what made GI Joe for us. Not this crap that we are seeing from Hasbro now...it is an insult to many of us, and that is why we voice our disgust.

[Draven79]

As much as I love the new stuff nothing will ever beat the 83-87 years imo! I grew up with those and they are still the best characters and versions of them imo. Now I do agree that todays bright color figures are all meshed together looking like puke at times. When they go overboard, but the old lines bright paints didn't do this. This is when I don't mind bright colors, the 85 BBQ is one example.

Draven #US1#

[monkey boy]

i think that's a little pretentious to say. and by that i mean, extremely pretentious to say. just because gi joe started out as drab military figures that all look the same, doesn't mean that's what they're "all about".

 

I don't think it's "pretentious" at all. A "drab military" line, that all looked the same? @lol@ If you're strictly talking 1982, then I might agree with you.

 

However, figures like Blowtorch, Firefly, Storm Shadow, Spirit, Alpine, Barbecue, The Crimson Guard, EELS, Shipwreck, Snow Serpents, Snake Eyes, Lifeline, Low-Light, Beachhead, etc, were all very original and unique characters that didn't cross the boundary of looking "cartoony," overly-flambouyant, or down-right eyesores. Even the more "colorful" Joes stuck to the basic fundamentals of what colors fit well together...such as yellow and red. NEVER did you see a Joe with Pea-Green, Maroon, Orange, Grey, and Brown all crammed into one figure. These are the colors of puke, and Hasbro's creative teams realized it back then.

 

Seriously, compare the '85 version of Alpine to the new version. The old Alpine was unique, and at the same time very realistic, without coming off as one of the Village People with a rope wrapped around their shoulder, as the new Alpine does. I won't even touch the accessories, as any moron will realize that the old characters came with new, character appropriate accessories, while the new lines can hardly hold a candle to what the accessories of RAH were all about.

 

Now, a few questions:

 

What do you think kicked off the RAH line? What do you think carried it into the early 90's.

 

Once you've answered those questions, answer these:

 

What do you think ended the RAH line? What killed it?

 

Hint: Look at how RAH started off and how it ended. Now, look at the direction JvC/VvV is going. @wink@

 

and you were very selective in your response. you said "early 90s" i assume you're thinking 93, 94 when joes went crazy neon...but i specifically said "late 80s, early 90s" which clearly states what joe era i belong to. in my opinion the best joes come from the late 80s, when there was just the right mix of fantasy and reality.

 

Okay, let's say I agree with you and compare the Joes of the late 80's/early 90's to the crap pictured in the link above.

 

'89 Alley Viper: Orange, Blue and Black color scheme...colors that don't clash with one another. Possibly one of my favorite Joe's as a kid. His weapons where awesome, he had the flip-up face mask, a unique shield that matched his colors, a unique gun, and an awesome backpack.

 

Downtown: Sure, this guy has an off-beat color scheme...but his weapons redeem him. And, even though his colors were slightly offbeat...they were still half-way realistic. C'mon, whats not to like about a figure that comes with a .357 mag, a helmet, and a mortar gun w/ a backpack that holds the shells? What JvC figure has this originality?

 

'89 SE and Rock 'n' Roll: Is a description necessary here?

 

Bullhorn, Freefall, Undertow: Must I go through this again? They were all very realistically colored figures, with original accessories that fit their primary military specialty. They were not cartoony, and you could tell what purpose they served for their side by looking at them.

 

if you've been hating joes for the past 17 years, why are you still collecting them? newsflash: joes will never go back to being skinny, plain, drab colored, 100% military figures where each figure uses 90% of another figure's parts. if you've been waiting for that since 1987, you are a sad sad man.

 

I don't think Clam was saying that he has hated GI Joe for the last 17 years, he was just acknowledging that it peaked somewhere around '86 or '87, and went downhill from there. Even if you liked many, if not all, of the figures beyond that point, that is where RAH steadily declined from the #1 toyline in many kids eyes, to nothing but utter crap. That is exactly where JvC/VvV is taking us, in not so many years.

 

Myself, and I have a feeling I speak for others, RAH died in my mind the day I saw "sound attack backpacks," Ninja Force, neon figures, etc. And, be it a coincidence or not, that is where RAH died too.

 

And where did this "each figure uses 90% of another figure's parts" BS come from? Most of the figures, pre-1987 didn't use the legs, arms, waist pieces, heads, ect from other molds. They were all new...unlike JvC. If you're going to make an argument, at least get your facts straight.

 

it is entirely snobby and stupid to say that i have no idea what joe is about simply because i prefer the joes of the late 80s over the joes of the early to mid 80s. if this board is that elitist, i can't imagine why you still collect joes at all.

 

@rolleye@

 

Dude...we disagree with you and you call us "snobby and stupid elitists?" If Ninja Force, ECO-Warriors, Sound Attack, etc made GI Joe what it is for you today, then more power to you. But, I would have to say that a good 75% of GI Joe fans were there between '82 and '87, and that is what made GI Joe for us. Not this crap that we are seeing from Hasbro now...it is an insult to many of us, and that is why we voice our disgust.

i understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions. yes, i was pointing largely to 82 joes with my descriptions. i admit that. for the record, a lot of early-mid 80s joes are great. we all know that. the point is, i started collecting joes around 87/88. those figures are my favorite.

 

the reason i called clam's post pretentious and elitist was not because his views differed from mine. i called him that because he said i know nothing about what gi joe is all about. that goes beyond the realm of opinion and presumes something about me that i disagree with.

 

perhaps the drab, skinny guy comments were presumptuous. i suppose the reason i pointed mainly at the 82 joes is because to me, the "glory days" people talk about went on well past what most people consider. at least for me. if you're going to bring up amazing molds like storm shadow, firefly and the like, i would challenge that some late 80s molds and even some 90s molds are just as great. i wholeheartedly agree that when joe started to really make great stuff it was really really great. but i enjoyed joe all the way into the early 90s just as much. i think just because i don't share the opinion that it all went downhill from 85 onward doesn't mean i'm less qualified to comment on joes.

 

nobody likes neon. i sure don't either. yes, the crappy neon and action features ultimately destroyed the RAH line. the problem is i think people are jumping the gun A LOT when they say VvV is going all neon. it has a long way to go to match the garish colors of 93 and 94. to me, these VvV colors are not that bad. they are very much toned down from the original prototypes, and to me they are acceptable.

 

 

just because i stand apart and say i don't mind the VvV colors while everyone else is crying that the line is dead, and just because i think great molds were made in the 90s as well as the 80s...someone's going to tell me i'm not qualified to speak my mind about joes. if a joe-fan who got on board in 87 isn't a true joe fan to you, god only knows what you think of someone who just joined up for the JvC line. jeez. THAT, my friend, is what i find elitist and pretentious.

[useless]

Very true, although the first few years of both toy lines actually were the best (altough the armada and energon are a close second). That's not based on demographics, just truth.

 

I think you're missing my point, there it was is that opinion entriely objective, or affected by greater nostailgia I prefered the bulkier look of the post 85 figures, and I did like some of the more futuristic themes.

 

I'm not saying that those eras figures wern't good: its just nostigia tends mostly to make one a bit more forgiving of faults: eg Shipwreck V1 owed more to the Village people than Modern Naval personel and Uniforms, Quick kick was nothing but a Bruce Lee rip-off, Airtight as a MILITARY Hazmat specailist shouldn't have been in bright yellow,neither should Blowtorch (Charbroil had the same specialty but was much better looking three years later). Yet many fans defend these choices as making sense. IMO the "miss" ratio for 83-86 was just as high as for 87-91, there was just more of it, which meant more actual figures were on both sides of the line.

 

I think another factor may be that as I was in the UK I never saw the Cartoon regularly, so the swtich in production company (and quality) had very little effect on my perceptions: I was reling on the solely of the figures filecards, and comics

 

 

 

You can't honestly tell me that a toxo or techno viper were superior to a BAT v1, snow serpent v1 or a crimson guard.

 

Maybe not, but I can for the Iron Grenadier, Rock Viper and Night Viper. The Techno and Toxo Viper were well detailed Its just they were much more specailised characters: i'd take either over a V1 Televiper.

 

For that Matter Sonic Fighters Zap (ignoring the backpack) and Rock and Roll V2 miles better molds than the origional versions, V2 Stalker would have been too except they took a general purpose character and made him a specialist

 

I wouyld hesitate to defend some of the Current line on these grounds (although I do like them a lot), but on the 87-91 (particualrly 88-90) series I have no reservations

[CLAM]

oh, let me just agree with Monkey Boy on something to show I am not too biased..

 

I feel that the later years of RAH actually featured BETTER molds than most of the earlier stuff.. better MOLDS, but the paint schemes and accessory choices really brought the figures down..

 

anyways, like I said before, I collected just as much as ever up until about 92.. there were still some good figures around, but they were few and far between.. I think the last figure I ever got from the shelves was the Headhunter Stormtrooper, a really awesome figure with crappy weapons.

[useless]

Even if you liked many, if not all, of the figures beyond that point, that is where RAH steadily declined from the #1 toyline in many kids eyes, to nothing but utter crap.

Unless those kids started prefering other toylines instead i'd say its more evidence of those kids getting older:

 

even amoungst those who go on to be come collectors every kid comes to apoint where their interest in toys reduces at least a bit, and for a lot of kids who were around for the 1983 series 1988-90 would be about the right time for that to happen.

 

I'm not disputing that the overall quality did start to dip, rather I'm saying that this didn't happen until 1992 or so, (co-incidentlaly this was when already existant characters started to re-appear more and more often, or perhaps notco-inicdentally) about 2 years after I went through that phase myself: the line RAH was still strong (in terms of product at least) when I left it to expore new horizons. And even then some of the molds were greats: as has been proven by the 2003 Convention set, the RAHC series and others.

[Straight Edge]

>>but the most popular feeling is that the 83-86 lines were better designed, more thought out character design>>

 

And didn’t we all learn back in High School that *Popular* opinions tend to be a bit misguided, and a lot wrong. Popular means crap in this world. Unanimous is the only was you can say something *for sure*. As it stands, you *prefer* the early 80s Joes. Your only firm stance is that its what *you* like. You cannot, with any claim of legitimacy, say that what you think (regardless of how many share those thoughts) counts for *anything* more than your opinion.

 

As a child of the *early* 80s, I find myself farer fonder of the late 80s/early 90s sculpts than I am of *anything* that came out in 1984. Do I love the “classic” designs of the characters? Sure. But I think sculpting improved dramatically by 1991. I *know* (probably better than a lot of people on these boards) what GIJoe is all about. I’ve spoken with Don Levine, Derryl DePriest, Larry Hama, Thomas Wheeler, and Corey Stinson, and for the most part, they all hold the same overall opinions of what G.I.Joe is and isn’t, and I’ve never had cause to disagree.

 

Our arguments over paint schemes is, in the end, very petty. The bigger picture, which escapes most collectors, is what counts.

 

And for the record, nothing that’s been released in the GvC line, or in VvV qualifies as Neon. They are bright colors, pale hues, and even very unmilitary, but they are *not* neon. Its sad to hear such a claim made, as if Neon was some kind of fungus that grows on a toy. Its a range of colors that are so loud, so obnoxious, that the shine even in the dark. *None* of the paints used on GIJoe now have those qualities. They are simply bright colors, because the base-color plastics that are pumped into the molds come in bright colors. Those plastics are usually melted down, and mixed with black plastic, to create the actual production colors. So all prototypes will seem abnormally bright compared to production level figures. But none of them, and I repeat *none* of them, are actual neon colored.

[monkey boy]

>>but the most popular feeling is that the 83-86 lines were better designed, more thought out character design>>

 

And didn’t we all learn back in High School that *Popular* opinions tend to be a bit misguided, and a lot wrong. Popular means crap in this world. Unanimous is the only was you can say something *for sure*. As it stands, you *prefer* the early 80s Joes. Your only firm stance is that its what *you* like. You cannot, with any claim of legitimacy, say that what you think (regardless of how many share those thoughts) counts for *anything* more than your opinion.

 

As a child of the *early* 80s, I find myself farer fonder of the late 80s/early 90s sculpts than I am of *anything* that came out in 1984. Do I love the “classic” designs of the characters? Sure. But I think sculpting improved dramatically by 1991. I *know* (probably better than a lot of people on these boards) what GIJoe is all about. I’ve spoken with Don Levine, Derryl DePriest, Larry Hama, Thomas Wheeler, and Corey Stinson, and for the most part, they all hold the same overall opinions of what G.I.Joe is and isn’t, and I’ve never had cause to disagree.

 

Our arguments over paint schemes is, in the end, very petty. The bigger picture, which escapes most collectors, is what counts.

 

And for the record, nothing that’s been released in the GvC line, or in VvV qualifies as Neon. They are bright colors, pale hues, and even very unmilitary, but they are *not* neon. Its sad to hear such a claim made, as if Neon was some kind of fungus that grows on a toy. Its a range of colors that are so loud, so obnoxious, that the shine even in the dark. *None* of the paints used on GIJoe now have those qualities. They are simply bright colors, because the base-color plastics that are pumped into the molds come in bright colors. Those plastics are usually melted down, and mixed with black plastic, to create the actual production colors. So all prototypes will seem abnormally bright compared to production level figures. But none of them, and I repeat *none* of them, are actual neon colored.

amen. finally someone seems to recognize the difference between opinion and fact.

[DarthJoe]

>>but the most popular feeling is that the 83-86 lines were better designed, more thought out character design>>

 

And didn’t we all learn back in High School that *Popular* opinions tend to be a bit misguided, and a lot wrong. Popular means crap in this world. Unanimous is the only was you can say something *for sure*. As it stands, you *prefer* the early 80s Joes. Your only firm stance is that its what *you* like. You cannot, with any claim of legitimacy, say that what you think (regardless of how many share those thoughts) counts for *anything* more than your opinion.

 

As a child of the *early* 80s, I find myself farer fonder of the late 80s/early 90s sculpts than I am of *anything* that came out in 1984. Do I love the “classic” designs of the characters? Sure. But I think sculpting improved dramatically by 1991. I *know* (probably better than a lot of people on these boards) what GIJoe is all about. I’ve spoken with Don Levine, Derryl DePriest, Larry Hama, Thomas Wheeler, and Corey Stinson, and for the most part, they all hold the same overall opinions of what G.I.Joe is and isn’t, and I’ve never had cause to disagree.

 

Our arguments over paint schemes is, in the end, very petty. The bigger picture, which escapes most collectors, is what counts.

 

And for the record, nothing that’s been released in the GvC line, or in VvV qualifies as Neon. They are bright colors, pale hues, and even very unmilitary, but they are *not* neon. Its sad to hear such a claim made, as if Neon was some kind of fungus that grows on a toy. Its a range of colors that are so loud, so obnoxious, that the shine even in the dark. *None* of the paints used on GIJoe now have those qualities. They are simply bright colors, because the base-color plastics that are pumped into the molds come in bright colors. Those plastics are usually melted down, and mixed with black plastic, to create the actual production colors. So all prototypes will seem abnormally bright compared to production level figures. But none of them, and I repeat *none* of them, are actual neon colored.

Dude...honestly now...you guys have made some good points about the late 80's early 90's toys, but are you seriously trying to tell me that the Alpine in this wave is in any way comparable to the '85 version, other than the fact that the VvV one has a rope wrapped around his torso? @lol@

 

Or that the "Electric Eel" is even close to as cool as the V1 Eel was?

 

I won't even touch Zartan...@lol@

 

Have you guys taken a serious LOOK at these new VvV figs?

[monkey boy]

>>but the most popular feeling is that the 83-86 lines were better designed, more thought out character design>>

 

And didn’t we all learn back in High School that *Popular* opinions tend to be a bit misguided, and a lot wrong.  Popular means crap in this world.  Unanimous is the only was you can say something *for sure*.  As it stands, you *prefer* the early 80s Joes.  Your only firm stance is that its what *you* like.  You cannot, with any claim of legitimacy, say that what you think (regardless of how many share those thoughts) counts for *anything* more than your opinion.

 

As a child of the *early* 80s, I find myself farer fonder of the late 80s/early 90s sculpts than I am of *anything* that came out in 1984.  Do I love the “classic” designs of the characters?  Sure.  But I think sculpting improved dramatically by 1991.  I *know* (probably better than a lot of people on these boards) what GIJoe is all about.  I’ve spoken with Don Levine, Derryl DePriest, Larry Hama, Thomas Wheeler, and Corey Stinson, and for the most part, they all hold the same overall opinions of what G.I.Joe is and isn’t, and I’ve never had cause to disagree.

 

Our arguments over paint schemes is, in the end, very petty.  The bigger picture, which escapes most collectors, is what counts.

 

And for the record, nothing that’s been released in the GvC line, or in VvV qualifies as Neon.  They are bright colors, pale hues, and even very unmilitary, but they are *not* neon.  Its sad to hear such a claim made, as if Neon was some kind of fungus that grows on a toy.  Its a range of colors that are so loud, so obnoxious, that the shine even in the dark.  *None* of the paints used on GIJoe now have those qualities.  They are simply bright colors, because the base-color plastics that are pumped into the molds come in bright colors.  Those plastics are usually melted down, and mixed with black plastic, to create the actual production colors.  So all prototypes will seem abnormally bright compared to production level figures.  But none of them, and I repeat *none* of them, are actual neon colored.

Dude...honestly now...you guys have made some good points about the late 80's early 90's toys, but are you seriously trying to tell me that the Alpine in this wave is in any way comparable to the '85 version, other than the fact that the VvV one has a rope wrapped around his torso? @lol@

 

Or that the "Electric Eel" is even close to as cool as the V1 Eel was?

 

I won't even touch Zartan...@lol@

 

Have you guys taken a serious LOOK at these new VvV figs?

yes, i have seriously looked at these figures. i'm not too enthused about the zartan, and i don't care about the alpine. my point is the colors aren't as terrible to me as everyone else says they are.

 

as for the electric eel, i find this figure to be awesome. it's not really comparable to the original eel. while i like the 80's eel mold, it's a bit too "generic frogman" for me. don't get me wrong, it's great, but if i was to compare the electric eel to any figure, it would be the 80's hydro viper.

 

sure, the electric eel's colors are garish to some, and the clear plastic may put some off, but i think it's a unique and not too over the top use of bright color. notice i said BRIGHT not NEON. they're two very different things, as was mentioned.

 

as for alpine and zartan, i won't be buying these figures unless they're packed with someone i want. however, i don't find them as deplorable as you seem to. they just don't interest me. they're somewhat boring. with alpine, the character design has always been a little boring, with zartan i'm kinda annoyed because he looks more generic than he ever has before. however, no zartan in my opinion has been good since the original. i'm not so let down though, because i can live without zartan.

 

as for the upcoming figures i'm excited about, the new destro looks cool, and swamp rat has a unique design (though the tail is a little iffy), also jinx looks good, and i love the electric eel.

 

some upcoming figures i think are good updates of characters, but i might not get them just because i'm not interested. the upcoming beach head and baroness, in my opinion, are not too neon and are good updates of the characters.

 

one character that i might have to agree is ruined by paint is the upcoming wave 3 firefly (assuming it is firefly). if they make him blue/purple i won't buy him.

[Ren]

>>but the most popular feeling is that the 83-86 lines were better designed, more thought out character design>>

 

And didn’t we all learn back in High School that *Popular* opinions tend to be a bit misguided, and a lot wrong.  Popular means crap in this world.  Unanimous is the only was you can say something *for sure*.  As it stands, you *prefer* the early 80s Joes.  Your only firm stance is that its what *you* like.  You cannot, with any claim of legitimacy, say that what you think (regardless of how many share those thoughts) counts for *anything* more than your opinion.

 

As a child of the *early* 80s, I find myself farer fonder of the late 80s/early 90s sculpts than I am of *anything* that came out in 1984.  Do I love the “classic” designs of the characters?  Sure.  But I think sculpting improved dramatically by 1991.  I *know* (probably better than a lot of people on these boards) what GIJoe is all about.  I’ve spoken with Don Levine, Derryl DePriest, Larry Hama, Thomas Wheeler, and Corey Stinson, and for the most part, they all hold the same overall opinions of what G.I.Joe is and isn’t, and I’ve never had cause to disagree.

 

Our arguments over paint schemes is, in the end, very petty.  The bigger picture, which escapes most collectors, is what counts.

 

And for the record, nothing that’s been released in the GvC line, or in VvV qualifies as Neon.  They are bright colors, pale hues, and even very unmilitary, but they are *not* neon.  Its sad to hear such a claim made, as if Neon was some kind of fungus that grows on a toy.  Its a range of colors that are so loud, so obnoxious, that the shine even in the dark.  *None* of the paints used on GIJoe now have those qualities.  They are simply bright colors, because the base-color plastics that are pumped into the molds come in bright colors.  Those plastics are usually melted down, and mixed with black plastic, to create the actual production colors.  So all prototypes will seem abnormally bright compared to production level figures.  But none of them, and I repeat *none* of them, are actual neon colored.

amen. finally someone seems to recognize the difference between opinion and fact.

I think it's safe to say that we're all expressing opinions, and sometimes a certain point might be "popular" but it's not a peer preesure high school herd of sheep jumpin' off a cliff kinda popular, but the most logical choice for a large number of Joe fans who have had years to refine their near expert opinion. For instance, a some people hate Picassos painting's. But a large number of the art community, including esteemed opinions of art critics and art professors, think he's a genius and his works masterpieces. Now I think it's a safe bet that the majority of peoples opinions aren't "misguided" , but rather the small minority of naysayers. Popular means more than just "crap", for on a lot of issues, including the 83-86 RAH, the "popular opinion" is popular not just because it's the joes we remember most fondly, but because the majority has established over the years that 1983-1986 the characters, plots, figures, playsets, and vehicle design of G.I. Joe was at the creative peak. #US1#

[monkey boy]

>>but the most popular feeling is that the 83-86 lines were better designed, more thought out character design>>

 

And didn’t we all learn back in High School that *Popular* opinions tend to be a bit misguided, and a lot wrong.  Popular means crap in this world.  Unanimous is the only was you can say something *for sure*.  As it stands, you *prefer* the early 80s Joes.  Your only firm stance is that its what *you* like.  You cannot, with any claim of legitimacy, say that what you think (regardless of how many share those thoughts) counts for *anything* more than your opinion.

 

As a child of the *early* 80s, I find myself farer fonder of the late 80s/early 90s sculpts than I am of *anything* that came out in 1984.  Do I love the “classic” designs of the characters?  Sure.  But I think sculpting improved dramatically by 1991.  I *know* (probably better than a lot of people on these boards) what GIJoe is all about.  I’ve spoken with Don Levine, Derryl DePriest, Larry Hama, Thomas Wheeler, and Corey Stinson, and for the most part, they all hold the same overall opinions of what G.I.Joe is and isn’t, and I’ve never had cause to disagree.

 

Our arguments over paint schemes is, in the end, very petty.  The bigger picture, which escapes most collectors, is what counts.

 

And for the record, nothing that’s been released in the GvC line, or in VvV qualifies as Neon.  They are bright colors, pale hues, and even very unmilitary, but they are *not* neon.  Its sad to hear such a claim made, as if Neon was some kind of fungus that grows on a toy.  Its a range of colors that are so loud, so obnoxious, that the shine even in the dark.  *None* of the paints used on GIJoe now have those qualities.  They are simply bright colors, because the base-color plastics that are pumped into the molds come in bright colors.  Those plastics are usually melted down, and mixed with black plastic, to create the actual production colors.  So all prototypes will seem abnormally bright compared to production level figures.  But none of them, and I repeat *none* of them, are actual neon colored.

amen. finally someone seems to recognize the difference between opinion and fact.

I think it's safe to say that we're all expressing opinions, and sometimes a certain point might be "popular" but it's not a peer preesure high school herd of sheep jumpin' off a cliff kinda popular, but the most logical choice for a large number of Joe fans who have had years to refine their near expert opinion. For instance, a some people hate Picassos painting's. But a large number of the art community, including esteemed opinions of art critics and art professors, think he's a genius and his works masterpieces. Now I think it's a safe bet that the majority of peoples opinions aren't "misguided" , but rather the small minority of naysayers. Popular means more than just "crap", for on a lot of issues, including the 83-86 RAH, the "popular opinion" is popular not just because it's the joes we remember most fondly, but because the majority has established over the years that 1983-1986 the characters, plots, figures, playsets, and vehicle design of G.I. Joe was at the creative peak. #US1#

it's all opinions. like you said. but when you add your opinion and then also undermine the opinions of others (as you somewhat did in your post) it becomes different.

 

i've been collecting joes for how long...16 years? and my opinion isn't as valid as somebody else's just because i don't agree on certain points?

[Ren]

No, you're opinion's valid, I'm sorry if you thought I was undermining your opinions, I respect every Joe fan's opinions. What I meant was that it's similar to voting. Such as the democratic primaries. Suppose you voted for Kerry(83-86 joes), and I voted for Dean(87-92 joes). My vote was still important, and Kerry's supporters sure thought my vote was important, as it meant less support for Kerry. But Kerry's won the majority of primary votes. So my "vote" or opinion, while important to me and others, didn't make much of a difference to the outcome, although my voting for Dean(87-92 joes) was more important than not "voting" or having an opinion at all. The majority voted for Kerry, so I have to accept the fact that Kerry(83-86 joes) is the frontrunner. Hopefully I swayed some "Kerry" supporters into changing their stance to become "Dean" supporters along the way. And since the "primaries"(this debate) haven't been decided yet until every person who votes has had a chance, there's still a chance "Dean" could come out on top. But based on the majority's opinion, it looks like "Kerry" will remain the frontrunner.

 

 

 

 

(By the way I'm Republican, just using this ancedote to prove a point) @peace@

[monkey boy]

No, you're opinion's valid, I'm sorry if you thought I was undermining your opinions, I respect every Joe fan's opinions. What I meant was that it's similar to voting. Such as the democratic primaries. Suppose you voted for Kerry(83-86 joes), and I voted for Dean(87-92 joes). My vote was still important, and Kerry's supporters sure thought my vote was important, as it meant less support for Kerry. But Kerry's won the majority of primary votes. So my "vote" or opinion, while important to me and others, didn't make much of a difference to the outcome, although my voting for Dean(87-92 joes) was more important than not "voting" or having an opinion at all. The majority voted for Kerry, so I have to accept the fact that Kerry(83-86 joes) is the frontrunner. Hopefully I swayed some "Kerry" supporters into changing their stance to become "Dean" supporters along the way. And since the "primaries"(this debate) haven't been decided yet until every person who votes has had a chance, there's still a chance "Dean" could come out on top. But based on the majority's opinion, it looks like "Kerry" will remain the frontrunner.

 

 

 

 

(By the way I'm Republican, just using this ancedote to prove a point) @peace@

except choosing which joes you like best isn't like electing a leader. and just because it's popular doesn't mean it's right. dean and kerry might be at it, but what if i thought lieberman works best for me? (yeah right) but seriously, popularity doesn't make something more or less credible or valid.

[Ren]

No, you're opinion's valid, I'm sorry if you thought I was undermining your opinions, I respect every Joe fan's opinions. What I meant was  that it's similar to voting. Such as the democratic primaries. Suppose you voted for Kerry(83-86 joes), and I voted for Dean(87-92 joes). My vote was still important, and Kerry's supporters sure thought my vote was important, as it meant less support for Kerry. But  Kerry's won the majority of primary votes. So my "vote" or opinion, while important to me and others, didn't make much of a difference to the outcome, although my voting for Dean(87-92 joes) was more important than not "voting" or having an opinion at all. The majority voted for Kerry, so I have to accept the fact that Kerry(83-86 joes) is the frontrunner. Hopefully I swayed some "Kerry" supporters into changing their stance to become "Dean" supporters along the way. And since the "primaries"(this debate) haven't been decided yet until every person who votes has had a chance, there's still a chance "Dean" could come out on top. But based on the majority's opinion, it looks like "Kerry" will remain the frontrunner.

 

 

 

 

(By the way I'm Republican, just using this ancedote to prove a point)  @peace@

except choosing which joes you like best isn't like electing a leader. and just because it's popular doesn't mean it's right. dean and kerry might be at it, but what if i thought lieberman works best for me? (yeah right) but seriously, popularity doesn't make something more or less credible or valid.

That's entirely true, ultimately the only opinion that matters to an induvidual is their own opinion, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, and that's okay. No one person's opinion on G.I. Joes is superior to another's. If I agree to the general consensus, and you don't , well, we're both right! @smilepunch@ @loll@ #US1#

[CLAM]

Electric Eel is not too bright and over the top?? @rolleye@

[Straight Edge]

For its intended purpose, no, the Electric Eel is pretty spot on.

 

Think about it: He's got properties of an eel in is DNA. This figure is obviously indicative of his "powered up" ready to strike state. If you're a Joe diver, underwater, the sunlight pouring down into the shallow water, and there's a big gray hulk in front of you, I think "Fire at will" is the first command you'd utter.

 

But when, in the distance, you only see a glowing yellow haze, swimming along in a sultry, slinking motion, you think, "ok, indigenous species. Let's move on." Even worse, the almost transclucent nature of the "glowing" parts of this figure may completely absorb sunlight, making 90% of this figure invisible underwater, meaning this guy can sneak up on a Joe without a problem.

 

For that, the suit, the colors, and the gimmick (see-thru body) make perfect sense.

 

>>Popular means more than just "crap", for on a lot of issues, including the 83-86 RAH, the "popular opinion" is popular not just because it's the joes we remember most fondly, but because the majority has established over the years that 1983-1986 the characters, plots, figures, playsets, and vehicle design of G.I. Joe was at the creative peak.>>

 

"The majority has established" is a euphemism for "because we are many, our opinion has more weight", which is bull. Opinions are opinions. Had the 1990 sculpts been the first GIJoes created since 1976, and the RAH phenomenon been based on them, you'd all be praising Grid-Iron, and Metal Head, and Stretcher.

 

Your opinion is biased based on what was the most popular era for GIJOe. Popular because it came first. It was novel, seemingly brand new. By 1990, another "brand new" trend took over, and popular opinion swayed toward it (TMNT, Power Rangers, etc). This doesn't mean GIJoe dwindled in quality, nor do the decisions made later in the line refllect the demise. Those extreme measures were taken to *save* a line that died years before, based on lack of sales (too many customers lost to TMNT, or teen-year disinterest).

 

The only truly awful years of RAH were 1992 -94, a time when GIJoe's popularity had been over for five years already! Hasbro tried Eco Warriors, Ninja Force, Star Brigade, Neon-delicious Mega Marines, and tie-ins like Street Fighter to get *some* interest into the line. Not because 1987-91 weren't innovative and extraordinary toylines, but because, no matter how good they were - the sales werent as high.

 

Transformers, He-Man, even Superheroes all experienced this same trend. its not because toy quality was getting *much* worse, its because the kids who were old enough to be interested in 1982, by 1986, were too old for toys, and the new generation of buyers had their own hot properties. Were there no Ninja Turtles, or whatever, and had the US been at war, I guarantee the 1987-1991 Joes would be just as revered and sought after as the first four years.

 

Yes, 1982-86 was the "groundwork" era, but groundwork only lays the foundation for *better* to come. How many people do you know go to see the Guggenheim museum to marvel at the basement? They check out what sprouted from the dirt, and what's inside. The heart of the experience, not just how it started. "Populer" opinion dictates that only what we knew has validity. A more tempered, open-minded opinion can simply see the good where it lays, the bad where it exists (and there *is* bad in every year of GIJOe, 1964-today), and have wisdom to accept the new for what it is, rather than what it can never be.