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If there had never been RAH would any of you collect JvC


JayC
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'Cause always I liked guns ... Love me ninjas.

 

This is the major reason I hope I never run into 8S in real life :lol: His almost instantaneous knowledge of any firearm, and his apparent love for ninjas.

 

Tom

 

:D Hehe... it's mostly the power of reading and the Internet... nothing more. :wink:

 

And on that note.... "Ninja vanish!"

 

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Ok here is another question to throw in the mix to think about. Imagine you were a kid today, and if you are a kid today definatly throw your input in. Are the elemets that attracted you to RAH back then there now in JvC and would they attract you today to collect this line. I know its kinda hard but think about all the things kids have exposure to today that perhaps you did not have access to back then. Keeping that in mind do you think you would be attracted to JvC if you were a kid today. (basically saying there would be no nastalgia factor to attaract you).

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I like joe because recently i was cleaning my room and came across a 1991 storm shadow [love commandos and ninjas, the bulk of my collection] , it got me right back into it.

 

And definatly, although here in england, all you can get is JvC, unless your in toyrus, we also have these Joe ripoffs called corps.

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Excellent questions to ponder, JayC...

 

Yeah, I honestly do believe I'd probably collect GvsC, even if RAH had never been. Why? I think mainly because I am an action figure fan first and foremost. I fell for G.I. Joe long before there was a cartoon, and I missed probably the first twenty issues or so of the comic, although toons and comics heavily swayed me sometimes when it came to my interest in any given toy line. And I was familiar with the o-ring construction before G.I. Joe came about through the "Dukes of Hazzard", "Chips", "Micronauts", and other action figures that had them. So that wasn't necessarily the hook for me. It's just that G.I. Joe was original in it's approach; flashy packaging, a cool military theme (What red-blooded, all-American nine-year-old boy could resist that during the '80s? :lol: ), interesting characters, cool accessories, and great vehicles and playsets. It was just the total package. And it was a situation that left adventures wide open for a child's imagination. It's like Hasbro was saying, "Here's the good guys, and here's the bad guys. That's all you need to know. Now take off!" You weren't tied down by any broad sweeping stories or themes. Here's these evil terrorists and they want to take over the world. G.I. Joe's here to stop 'em. Oh yeah! How can you pass that up?!

 

As I got older, I watched the cartoon and I eventually ended up getting most of the comics, and it just became a stituation where one fed off of the excitement of the other, and it became like a great friend that I could always hang out with and enjoy great memories. And that does weigh heavily on my interest in GvsC. I won't deny that. But I can say overall I just love action figuresd in general, it's just that G.I. Joe action figures are probably my favorite. It's just I was raised in the '80s I guess; when military heroes were cool, and they kinda reflected the political climate at the time, what with the cold war and America's fascination with all things military and all, namely the fairly recent Vietnam War in particular at the time. I guess I'm just a product of my childhood environment.

 

But yeah; I'd probably be interested in GvsC without the history of RAH fueling it, just because I love action figures in general. And as a kid, I think I wouldv'e fell for all the "bells and whistles" of GvsC, even though I don't care for gimmicks as an adult. :wink:

 

 

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If I were a kid today I would like them if they could interact with the vehicles better. I also like vehicles more if you can get alot of guys in them. I especially love APCs and really big vehicles. And the more a guy looks like a realistic military dude the more I would like them. No cartoony gimmick stuff.

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If there were never RAH when I was younger, I would most likely not collect JvC now. One of the main reasons that I collect the toys that I do today is because they are things that I liked when I was a kid.

 

As for if I were a kid today, I would like to think that I would feel the same about JvC as did about RAH when I was younger. Hopefully I wouldn't be into Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Ho like all of the other kids today. :wink:

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I never really cared for military toys when I was a kid. I was more into fantasy, sci fi and monster toys. I always thought the old GI Joe dolls, little green army men and plastic tanks were boring dumb and senseless. Just nameless things with no personality fighting no one specific *yawn*. Only something really powerful could change my mind and actually like army toys.

 

Concept wise:

Cobra facinated me without them I wouldnt have been interested. Cobra was home grown in the USA and seemed realistic in a sense. The face plate Cobra Commander and Destro were the first to draw my attention to the entire line. Theres something about their design that was completely original. The Joes were still a large army yet had unique characters with personalities. They didnt all look the same wearing the same outfits, there was individuality. Actual thought and imagination went into the creation of each and every one of these characters, even the cobra troops. Nothing else ever went into such detail.

 

Marketing:

The cartoon had a big impact. Five days a week of eye candy with a rerun marathon on the weekends thanks to my VCR fed my interest and kept me wanting more. Its still hard for me to believe how many seasons there actually were of the sunbow series there were just soo many episodes compared to todays dismal standards. Its baffling why they just stoped it when they did but they gave us alot in a short time. The comic, eh it bored me. Such tedious melodrama when I read it I felt like I was reading the script to my mom's soap operas *yawn*. The comic took itself too seriously with regard to the military aspect and focused too much on certain characters instead of the whole and that just turned me off. I didnt want to read about some chick and a bear or cobra commanders gimp son or the romance between characters, I was a kid! But the comic book commercials were cool and towards the end it was the only new animated footage of the new toys we could get.

 

 

Toys:

Before ARAH I had star wars, not much in accesories and articulation but it had vehicles you could put them in. ARAH figures just toped that. What really impressed me was the articulation and accesories. The vehicles were realistic yet not overly dull and generic like most military toys. Hasbro somehow gave the vehicles a style and personality of their own much like the figures. GI Joe was something that had been done before on a larger scale but it had life breethed into it with a purpose, to defend human freedom from cobra.

 

 

With all that in mind I wouldnt be interested in the new JVC stuff if it just came out today. There just isnt any attraction like the original ARAH. As of now despite the power of nostalgia there are other toy lines I put priotity on first, lines that actually bring out the excitement like ARAH once did. For toys, nothing particular about JVC grabs my attention outside of its namesake even though Hasbro tries every gimick imaginable. Every time I look at them I think of what could be done better. In the 80s there were plenty of toy lines with action feature gimicks, all the while ARAH were just pure action figures and still managed to survive longer then all the battle-matic action competition. What lesson in history does this teach us all?

 

Gimick toys did distract me for a time as a kid but they were just a diversion something different now and then, ARAH constantly captivated my interest longterm. JVC is just a diversion in my collecting now.

 

Joe vs Cobra is just lacking too much in every possible area. No cartoon, awfull comics, over sensationalization of triviality like sound attack and spytroop gear distracting from the actual FIGURES they are suposed to be selling. Manufacturers can make the simplest of toys that sell to children without ruining them with gimicks. Just look at the corps and chap mei, dollar discount toys no less. Visually the new designs are a big part of JVCs flaws. They are for the most part unrealistic and unattractive. There is nothing too appealing about how they trashed some unique and original designs. The newest "R&B sensation Dr Destro" doesnt invoke in me the same "WOW" of the original, or even the gold mask version which shows reinventing a classic character can and did work if they try. The overall look and feel of JVC is too candy coated and toy-ish with bloated unrealistic vehicles and a severe lack of detail ironically complemented by disproportionate figures at a scale with no direction or continuity with accesories just thrown in to fill space in the their buble pack. If these toys came out under different names I wouldnt even give them a second look. But just because they have GI Joe on it and are called Cobra Commander and Duke...ect I am just barely paying attention.

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I honestly don't know how I'd react to it as a kid.

Would it be like Corps? Is that something I would've gotten into?

maybe.

Looking at it now, though.

Without the legacy behind it, and no other toylines to collect, I would've been all over the 21st Century 4" stuff. :D

The realism, the vehicles, and especially the diorama capabilities. That's something I wish I had gotten more of in my RAH days. The "Outpost Defender" is still one of my favorite RAH items; I still wish I had gotten the 'checkpoint' :(

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Imagine you were a kid today, and if you are a kid today definatly throw your input in. Are the elemets that attracted you to RAH back then there now in JvC and would they attract you today to collect this line.

 

There's no cartoon, and that was my first exposure to GI Joe. Without a cartoon, I don't know how I would be able to get into GI Joe. I mean, how could any kid?

 

Think about some of the big things that's been exposed to kids today... I'll take Pokemon as an example. Big push here in the US as far as a cartoon. Sometimes it was 2-3 back-to-back episodes on Saturdays and a 1 [and eventually 2] episode(s) a day all week. That's a lot of air time for Pokemon. (Which incidentally sucked for Batman/Superman/Batman Beyond as they eventually got phased out).

 

I don't have cable.... not ever in my life. So how would the upcoming Spy Troops movie even reach poor deprived folks like me? Back in the day, GI Joe was on regular TV... at 7am (I think).... just before school started (when I was in elementary school). I'd watch an episode before going to school and talking about it with my friends. It was probably on 5 days a week (I think).

 

Where's the toons today? Cable TV? Cartoon Network? Alot of my fellow student's [back in the 80's] didn't have cable... and I don't think anyone [of my peers] was overly rich, and since Joes weren't that expensive (though, it's expensive to any 8 year old with no job :wink: ).... fun could be had by all.

 

Most of the time I would just stare at those fold-out catalog things; dreaming of owning this vehicle and that vehicle.

 

 

And just to take a bit further, if there was never RAH... and all of a sudden a JvC cartoon was out today... and me being 25 years old now.... I seriously doubt I would be into Joe. I can't stand today's cartoons anymore, and I no longer collect toys [other than Joe, and that's because of RAH].

 

If Transformer (G1's and the like) reissues still came out, I'd probably get those instead [of JvC]; as that too was something I grew up on.

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Let me ask you one more question. What first attracted you to GIJoe, then for RAH or now if you are a new GIJoe collector and JvC is what you started with.

 

Well my parents always got me Gi Joes as a kid..but i never really collected RAH cause i was to young to know :( , but now i collect RAH and JvC.......WHat Attracted me was.....first my bro got into it and he showed me all the joes and the characters and their looks just looked AWESOME!!, i needed them :D

 

 

If there was never RAH.....yes i would still collect JvC, i always would buy figures.....and then to see a figure with so much articulation would attract me and the cool looking characters too :D

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Think about this one:

 

If JvC was released in the 80s, and we all loved it then... Wouldn't we hate RAH now? :lol:

 

"WTF? Squat little dudes with big heads and vapid expressions? Where are the emphasised shoulders? Why do their thumbs keep snapping off?? Why is their flesh made of of plastic, and not painted on? These blow!"

 

:lol: Bizarro World.

 

Tom

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And just to take a bit further, if there was never RAH... and all of a sudden a JvC cartoon was out today... and me being 25 years old now.... I seriously doubt I would be into Joe. I can't stand today's cartoons anymore, and I no longer collect toys [other than Joe, and that's because of RAH].  

 

Yeah but what about the absence of a Joe cartoon????? I know watching the cartoon went hand in hand with one of the reasons that I wanted GI Joe. I would watch the cartoon and see how cool Roadblock, Flint, Destro, Serpentor and Lady Jaye (just examples) were and that made me want the figures. It probably would have been different if there was no cartoon with RAH. I guarantee that if it wasn't for the cartoon almost half of us wouldn't have loved Joe as much.

 

If JvC was released in the 80s, and we all loved it then... Wouldn't we hate RAH now?  

 

"WTF? Squat little dudes with big heads and vapid expressions? Where are the emphasised shoulders? Why do their thumbs keep snapping off?? Why is their flesh made of of plastic, and not painted on? These blow!"  

 

Bizarro World.  

 

 

Very interesting POV there tom......."Oh man these RAH Joes come with cooler weapons then JvC......and they can hold their weapons!!!!!" Cool Man!!! :lol:

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Think about this one:  

 

If JvC was released in the 80s, and we all loved it then... Wouldn't we hate RAH now? :lol:  

 

"WTF? Squat little dudes with big heads and vapid expressions? Where are the emphasised shoulders? Why do their thumbs keep snapping off?? Why is their flesh made of of plastic, and not painted on? These blow!"

 

:lol: Bizarro World.

 

Tom

 

yeah but us collecters have to complain about something right?

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Ok here is another question to throw in the mix to think about. Imagine you were a kid today, and if you are a kid today definatly throw your input in. Are the elemets that attracted you to RAH back then there now in JvC and would they attract you today to collect this line. I know its kinda hard but think about all the things kids have exposure to today that perhaps you did not have access to back then. Keeping that in mind do you think you would be attracted to JvC if you were a kid today. (basically saying there would be no nastalgia factor to attaract you).

 

Hmmm. Id say yes. Another factor that got me back into collecting Joes was 9-11. I wanted to have American troops that would always come out victorious and stand together against great odds and tragedy. If GI Joe were portrayed the way it was back in the 80's cartoon (and was IMO) that would have gotten me to buy em as they satisfied my desire for military heroes. But since I've known about Joe, I bought only the old characters from JvC and began buying the classic figs from other sites. Now Im going all-out on RAH re-issues, Funskool, my fav older characters (and occasional JvC figs like the new IG, BATs, Battle Helm CC, Kamkura etc.)

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Great topic, JayC!!

 

What drew me to RAH?

 

It was the three-pronged-attack that was the cartoon + the toyline + the comic books. And 8speed mentioned the full-color catalogs, and those deserve a category of their own for their impact on me. I remember keeping the latest RAH catalog with me at just about ALL TIMES as a kid, and I'd pull it out and just pore over it, so much that the catalogs always ended up ripped and dog-eared, put back together with tape!! I go to toy stores all the time now, 'cause I can go whenever I feel like it. As a kid, I was only able to go maybe a dozen times a year, so having those catalogs was like a window to the outside toy world, showing me what was available . . . somewhere . . . out there!! ;) Without those, as well as the Sears, JC Penny, and other catalogs, how else could I know what to ask for Christmas, etc.?

 

Which impacted me first is hard to remember, but it was probably the cartoon which introduced me to the characters and the concept, so I knew the basic backstory, and the comic then provided a more in-depth "serious" look at certain characters . . . but it was the toyline which really blew me away.

 

If the toys had sucked, I probably would never have got into it, because the cartoon especially (but also the comic at times) was not good enough to stand on its own without the toys. I distinctly remember being able to recognize how stupid many of the cartoon episodes were, and I remember being appalled at how absurd G.I. Joe : The Movie was, but I always collected the toys. To be honest, if the toyline had sucked, I would probably have never bought any of the comics, and I would have maybe watched the cartoon every once in a while, but it was really the toys which held everthing together as far as my interest was concerned.

 

The toys were simply amazing. Their articulation provided movement that more closely resembled realistic human motion moreso than just about any toyline in history for that scale, let alone was being produced at that time. I didn't start unscrewing Joes and taking them apart for inspection until I was a little older, so as a kid I was just mystified and fascinated by how their heads could look up, down, and side to side without spinning all the way around like every other toy I had.

 

The accessories were also brilliant. Compared to ANY toyline from the time, the individuality and quantity of the weapons was unprecedented in an action figure line. Plus the fact that it was "Snap-on Stay-on, Interchangeable" made your imagination the limit, giving you the liberty to swap weapons and gear if you wanted to. (For the record, I have never broken a single thumb on any RAH figure, even as a kid!)

 

The full-color painted card artwork and the file cards also did wonders for the imagination by giving yet another interpretation to add to mix. There were so many layers of depth to the Joe franchise, that you could pick and choose. For example, if you didn't like how a certain character was portrayed as goofy in the toon, you could read the file-card which portrayed the character as a serious hard-ass, or vice versa.

 

So, would I be into GvsC if RAH never existed?

 

I'm going to assume that we the same concept, all the characters, etc.

 

OK, well if RAH never existed, there would be no Joe comic books. The only comics would be the ones on the backs of the catalogs. So unless you are already buying the figures, you don't read the comics, so that can't be an "incentive" to get you to buy the toys.

 

And if RAH had never existed, then that particular type of body mold, the O-ring design with the swivel arms, the swivel head . . . that would not exist either, so GvsC wouldn't have that body type.

 

Oh, but whoops!! That already happened, didn't it??

 

Look at GvsC Wave 1. With the exception of the RAH-style arms, they are Star Wars type body construction. Without RAH, GvsC would have continued with the Star Wars style bodies permanently. (Of course, given how RAH started off without swivel arms, or swivel heads, which were later implemented, there is of course the possibilty that the fledgling GvsC line might have made changes as well, but without RAH, there is no way that GvsC would have the body types it uses now.)

 

Moving on to what draws me to buy action figures. I need to know the characters. I need to know who they are, and have a personal connection with them. One example is how when the first McToys Metal Gear Solid figures came out, I hadn't played the game yet. I saw 'em, thought, "Hmm . . . those look pretty cool . . . don't know what the hell they are, but they look kinda cool . . . " Then I moved in with a guy who had a PS1, and I played MGS1 and was completely blown away by that game. I remembered the McToys figures, and I simply had to have them all.

 

Granted those figures are not all that awesome (especially to non-MGS fans) but the point is that no matter how cool a figure may look, or be, if I couldn't possibly care less what the franchise is, or in the case of a "new" GvsC line, do not know what it's about, I won't buy it. But if I'm a fan of said franchise, (and this is of tremendous importance) AND the toys are cool, I will buy the $#!t out of them. But only if the toys are cool. Simply being plastic versions of a franchise I like (or love!) is not enough. The LOTR movies may be amazing film epics which I own/will own on DVD, but as long as the figures remain questionable paint-apps on even more questionable likenesses to the actors on molds with still even more questionable action features, I will not collect them. If I'm a huge fan I may have a few, but I will not "support" the line.

 

And in the case of GvsC, which are not that great toys to begin with (and IMO would be worse without the existance of RAH), all the inconsistencies and QC being way below par compared to every other major toyline would stick out like a sore thumb, reducing the possibility of buying into an "uknown" toyline even further.

 

But as a kid today (or an adult, for that matter) how do you even "know" about the G.I. Joe vs Cobra line?? A couple of ways.

 

There have been a few toy commercials. There have been some print ads in comics, magazines. And every major retail store at one point or another has stocked tons of GvsC product, which is a great method of advertising in and of itself. But all this then begs the following questions:

 

Would Hasbro's faith in a new line be high enough to spend money on TV and print ads without the knowledge that RAH is one of the most successful toy lines in history??

 

And would the major retailers have enough faith to stock such large quanitites and run promotion sales for a toyline such as GvsC without the past sales records of RAH to look at??

 

Hmmmmmm . . . . .

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If there were never RAH when I was younger, I would most likely not collect JvC now.  One of the main reasons that I collect the toys that I do today is because they are things that I liked when I was a kid.

 

I'm in the same boat. Without Joe and TF, I might have never cared about toys and I'd be more into Video/PC games now.

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I would never have collected JvC if there was no RAH because I liked RAH due to their realistic looking uniforms that were similar to military movies uniforms when the line first appeared. I don't get that same feeling with JvC. I don't like most of the JvC stuff which is why I don't post here like I used to. I will get Night Force though, but then again that is RAH to many of us.

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Hey BH, you just reminded me of something; Since I've been buying the BH vs. Sand Viper sets left and right, I have a couple of extra Beach Head repaints lying around my desk here, and last night I read BH's file card again. I don't think it's the same one that came with the Mindbender set, but it reads exactly like an old school file card! It may be one of the best file cards written, if not the best ever. It describes the character perfectly and still includes all of the military info we came to know and love from the old file cards, complete with a great quote from 'ol BH; and not one mention of any crappy "vs." info! It's things like that that give me hope for the new line. I see little glimmers of hope here and there that tells me Hasbro's on the right track.

 

Oh BTW; speaking of Beach Head: you all will recall me going on and on about how much I loved the Beach Head repaint not long ago. Well, I recently opened another Sand Viper set to find a BH with BOTH lower legs turned inward! I'm so confused! I have one posed on my desk that looks awesome with no inward-turned legs at all! I even compared them side by side to make sure! Weird. Wish I could find an original GvsC BH with good legs like that... :(

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Hey BH, you just reminded me of something; Since I've been buying the BH vs. Sand Viper sets left and right, I have a couple of extra Beach Head repaints lying around my desk here, and last night I read BH's file card again. I don't think it's the same one that came with the Mindbender set, but it reads exactly like an old school file card! It may be one of the best file cards written, if not the best ever. It describes the character perfectly and still includes all of the military info we came to know and love from the old file cards, complete with a great quote from 'ol BH; and not one mention of any crappy "vs." info! It's things like that that give me hope for the new line. I see little glimmers of hope here and there that tells me Hasbro's on the right track.

 

Oh BTW; speaking of Beach Head: you all will recall me going on and on about how much I loved the Beach Head repaint not long ago. Well, I recently opened another Sand Viper set to find a BH with BOTH lower legs turned inward! I'm so confused! I have one posed on my desk that looks awesome with no inward-turned legs at all! I even compared them side by side to make sure! Weird. Wish I could find an original GvsC BH with good legs like that... :(

 

What's up DB! I haven't been able to talk to you in awhile because I have been over here in Florida for the past 3 weeks, and don't have access to my computer at home obviously.

 

I didn't know that the new filecards were looking better. Maybe it is a glimmer of hope like you said. Did you say u need some original GvC BH Legs? I think I may have an extra pair, but I'll have to check tommorow when I get back home to NYC.

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  • 5 weeks later...

It's a sure thing that I grew up with the toys, but growing up in the U.P., I didn't get as much of the whole experience as most, so in middle school, I found some back issues, and was pretty much into buying any new 'joes all the way through, so as mew stuff kept coming, I was always looking for new stuff!

 

If GvC came out instead of RAH at my younger age, i probably would't have been as interested. It's all a little flat, it's still good, but the way they re-do, re-color, and well, the DD/Image book has totally lost my interest already. Maybe now that someone who knows much more and has a stronger skill, maybe I'll get back into the comics.

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