My second entry into the Devil's Due Cover Contest

[Master Thespian]

Here she is. A double cover. I've wanted to do one of these for a while now. I still have to rescan it as i am having trouble aligning it, clean it up a bit and ink it. I used the Joes from my favorite mission in the jungle (Stalker, Recondo, Roadblock, Gung Ho and Ripcord if you didn't know).

 

And don't worry, I'll be taking that mock cover type off when I submit it.

 

[Dieselboy M]

awesome piece, i would love to see that as the actual cover of an issue. and by the way, i like how you got that little frog looking at the viewer. :wink:

 

diesel

[B.A.Shipp]

That looks pretty cool! It is hard to get all that action in one pageisnt it.

 

Brad

[ARROW]

Um.........may I offer a critique?

 

 

 

--Ken

[Samus Aran]

I love it!! - Wow, I could never come up with cover ideas as original as these. The only 'drawback' is that I don't think DD is in the habit of displaying violence on their covers (I'm looking at the back cover). I personally have no problem with it, but they might think twice about printing dead bodies in pools of blood, and such. :-?

 

Heehee, I didn't even notice the frog until DieselboyM mentioned it. I love it! -

[Master Thespian]

Everyone: Thanks again for the replies:

 

Samus: This is why I think Devil's Due needs to put out a slightly more mature themed book. I mean. This is a story about the military vs terrorists. Somebody's getting shot.

 

Arrow: Go ahead. Just try to be polite with it, lol.

[Darren]

Nice work there!I really like it,but like ARROW,I'm going to offer a critique about it...and I am an art student,so I 'somewhat' know my stuff. :wink:

 

-The pools of blood and the shooting I have to agree with,DD might have a problem depicting that level of violence (a slaughter) on a cover.

 

-The jungle detail of the scene is excellent,I would like to see this in color!

 

-My main gripe is this....it looks more like an internal two-page shot instead of a cover.I remember reading in Wizard or something like that that comic book companies rarely print covers that don't show the faces of the characters,let alone the backs.It just doesn't have the dynamic flare of cover art to me.If maybe it was slightly different angle and showed the character's fronts and faces in a more dynamic pose as they crept through the jungle,then it could serve better.

[Master Thespian]

Yeah, I knew I was going to get this particular critique which is a valid one. I wanted to draw something a little different here, so I just went for it. I'll be doing plenty more covers for the contest, so I'm not *too* worried. Thanks, CC!

[Darren]

Yeah, I knew I was going to get this particular critique which is a valid one.  I wanted to draw something a little different here, so I just went for it.  I'll be doing plenty more covers for the contest, so I'm not *too* worried.  Thanks, Nas!

 

:evil: I hope you didn't refer to me as 'Nas',I'm Cobra Commander! @-@

[Master Thespian]

Terribly sorry about that!!!! You guys have similiar avatars. *Embarrassed*

[Samus Aran]

 I'll be doing plenty more covers for the contest, so I'm not *too* worried.  Thanks, CC!

 

...Ever think about doing a desert-themed cover?

[Master Thespian]

Maybe. Let's just say I promised to do a Hawk bio art piece a while ago, and Hawk ended up on my first cover...

[ARROW]

Master Thespian--

 

I can see some fundemental flaws with the cover art, but writing it out here in a "polite" manner will be too much work so I'll refrain.

Its not that I cannot write the crit politely, its that I'd be blunt and direct in my ciritque of the art.

 

Because you specifically stated a concern about politeness ( and thus sensitivity ) its best that I don't write anything so as to not offend you and cause a big flame-up.

 

Sorry.

 

--Ken

PS: just so that you know, I head up a Comic Book Illustration programme at an Art College in Canada and have been a professional cartoonist for over 18 years --so you would have gotten a professional's perspective. If you'd like a crit regardless of tone, please LMK.

 

--Ken

[Blackmada]

Who are the two poeple in the buiding further back? Is one a hostage?

 

Good work, I like it. The first thing I noticed was the detail on the trees and buildings. Good angle too!

[Master Thespian]

Master Thespian--

 

I can see some fundemental flaws with the cover art, but writing it out here in a "polite" manner will be too much work so I'll refrain.

Its not that I cannot write the crit politely, its that I'd be blunt and direct in my ciritque of the art.

 

Because you  specifically stated a concern about politeness ( and thus sensitivity ) its best that I don't write anything so as to not offend  you and cause a big flame-up.

 

Sorry.

 

--Ken

PS: just so that you know, I head up a Comic Book Illustration programme at an Art College in Canada and have been a professional cartoonist for over 18 years --so you would have gotten a professional's perspective. If you'd like a crit regardless of tone, please LMK.

 

--Ken

 

Actually, I meant more along the lines of no "OMFG, d00D, u'll n3var git a job b/c u r a n00B" stuff. Go ahead and shoot.

[ARROW]

Okay, remember you requested it.

 

Before I start I want/need you to understand where I'm coming from.

 

I'm going to critique the art, not you--the two are not the same ( although some young talent cannot make that distinction)

Because of the nature of the contest, and its implied "professional" ambitions for most entrants, I'm going to focus this crit soley on professional standards and needs. My aim is not to rip the art apart for my own ego/vanity, instead its to help you create the strongest possible piece--there WILL BE corrections called for.

 

I'm going to just lay it out as I see it, so here goes:

 

 

First thing that catches my eye is a fundemental staging problem.

This spins off into several directions so hang on...

 

#1: There's HUGE negative space issues in the piece.

There's waaaaay too much dead space on the left side of the front cover and enormous space in the upper half of the rear cover. This is a big bad ju-ju point. The use of space in the image is confined to a box on the front and the lower corner of the back cover--space that could be used in a variety of ways to draw and engage the audience.

 

#2: An over-the-shoulder shot with the main two subjects ( Recondo and Tunnel Rat??) has them facing away. This is a major problem because not seeing the characters faces means their selling value is next to nothing on the cover.

That is like paying your TV/Movie stars big bucks, then making them wear paper bags on their heads the whole time--why do that?? They are the stars of the story--SHOW THEM OFF.

 

The comic book cover HAS TO have the strongest possible art to sell the book to the reader-otherwise its useless.

The two cover characters are also way too small, their impact is negligible--thus the appeal of the cover is negligible.

Likewise the rear cover characters are also too small and they are hard to "read"--their silhouettes being in a unpleasing jumble, with nothing guiding the eye to anything in particular.

 

Because you chose an over the shoulder shot with the bias of the shot being objects in the background ( the battle) the primary information is on the back cover--something that isn't seen until the reader actually picks up the comic.

Readers see the cover first so the small figures facing away do not provide a compelling enough capture for a on-looker to grab their eye.

You have two ideas at play here, both dis-jointed.

 

The snipers are one idea, the close-quarter battle being another......trying to find a way to stage the two together is ........well its pretty tough.

 

This means that the camera angle you've chosen is flawed.

 

Who do you focus on? The snipers? The battle? How do you stage the shot so that you can see FACES of the heroes--in this case the Joes ( and the MAIN selling point of the book!)

 

How do you get the heroes larger and more dynamic in the availible frame? What exactly is the focus of the image? What can be removed and still carry the idea? What is non-essential?

If you cannot effectively answer these questions immediately, then the drawing isn't working.

 

 

Start over.

An aside here: almost every artist HATES those two words. "Start over"..........does anyone have ANY IDEA how much sweat/blood/tears/ toil go into the work??

 

Yea..........I do. Callous as it sounds, if you aspire to professional work, get used to scrapping a bad drawing and starting over again.

If it sucks, fix it.

 

IMO, at this point, I think the image should be re-thought, and re-done.

 

 

Now some additional things that catch my eye:

 

Recondo's rifle-- take the page you have the art on and print it out.

Fold it in half and take a look at what will be the cover.

See the flaw?

Recondo's rifle barrel probably either touch the very spine/seam of the cover or is cropped by it. If it touches you have a tangent problem and that HAS TO BE fixed. Bad tangents ( the line of someone's elbow touching the actual border of a panel, for example) direct the eye off the page--they are an amateurs mistake and need to be avoided/eliminated.

They can objectify the panel borders and yank a reader out of the story by calling out the frame of an image.

If the reader doesn't notice the panle outlines then you've done most of your job right!

If the rifle barrel overlapps the seam and is badly cropped then you have an different, but no less irritating, problem.

Badly cropped figures, or props held by figures, also speak of amateur art.

The classic example is one of the (great??) Rob Liefeld who cropped a character off at the ankles ( unforgivable sin) and it was observed later ( and correctly!!) that Rob couldn't draw feet.

Actually his feet were weak, so he used an even weaker ploy to avoid drawing them.........and he got caught.

 

In this pieces case, the rifle being cropped can be solved by simply either shortening it by a small amount or (better) moving the character back a ways.

Also Recondo is not properly sighting his rifle. It looks like he's closely scrutinizing a spot just in front of the clip--this can be fixed by turning his head to a stronger profile-- his head (side) turned more towards us.

 

The trees.

Some of your trees are too uniform. this can be fixed by simply get refs for REAL trees, On-line is a good source. Life drawing cannot be stressed enough. No-one ever does it enough, but those that do, are leagues ahead of those that don't. Drw trees from life and look for those deliberately random patterns in how the palm fronds droop from the real version.

 

The far ridge line is too uniform. Real geography has folds and undulating shapes. There needs to be structure in geo-forms--what you have just looks like a wall.

 

This leads me to something else: depth.

There is a KEEP IT SIMPLE philosophy to staging that means using only three segments of distance: foreground, middle ground and background,

You have about 6 ground segments here.

Each ground segment has coresponding levels of detail--the further away you go the less detail you will see.

This accounts for a "theoretical" depth of field that corresponds with a movie camera image or a photogragh--some stuff will be in focus ( usually in the FG) and some will not ( usually in the BG).

Your image has detail in the three main segments, so there is no real "depth".

 

Further away you get from the camera the less detail you see.

That means you won't see the details on the figures in the battle: nada for the web gear they have, or the spent shell cassings flying from the gun, nor even the hostages in the far hut.

Won't see it, don't draw it

 

 

So........

 

I've made a hatchet-job of your drawing and you'll doubtless feel pretty frustrated right about now.

I'm not some cold hearted jerk........I won't just leave you in the lurch.

Here's how I'd TRY to fix this peice:

 

 

Step 1: grab a clean sheet of paper. Yea, your gonna re-draw it.

 

Step 2: don't waste your time doing a drawing right on the final page UNLESS you have a rock solid idea in mind. Thumbnail out the peice instead on scrap paper--work out ALL the major drawing problems there before you commit to the final page.

Staging, composition, figure placement, eye-direction, light/dark values.......all the things that will make or break the drawing.

 

 

Step 3: Here's how I'd tackle this--

 

The idea of the two snipers over looking the battle is possibly salvagable with some variation.

 

Instead of placing the camera high and above them, I'd place it lower and BETWEEN them.

Favour one or the other--in this case favouring Tunnel Rat would supply you with the eye direction towards the back cover. Recondo can actually be on the back cover as a additional framing element.

Tunnel Rat would be in the extreme foreground ( very close to camera) somewhat foreshortened, given how large he would have to be--filling the side of the page from the bottom to a point near the logo copy.

Cropping him carefully would be essential, but it can be done, most of him would be cropped anyway--show his shoulders, head and arms holding his weapon. He would also be in shadow and the camera would be very near the ground level her rests on--probably near his elbow.

You can have plants and stuff over top him to show that he's under cover.

He "looms" ( in FG) over the scene in the BG, which is the battle.

Keep the figures in the background to a minimum.

Showing one or two getting shot or shooting back etc, and place the hostages somewhere interesting--perhaps strung out crucifix-style on poles would supply more peril and urgency.

The image that occupies the front cover must compose as self contained--you can overlap some of the action onot the back cover, where Recondo can mirror Tunnel Rat in his staging--don't place al the head of characters on the same plane when you stage this.

Can you visualize what I am talking about here??

 

My solution isn't even a 100% satisfying one because we still will not see the faces of the Tunnel Rat or Recondo, but there's an opportunity for the BG characters to be larger, and this spotlit a bit better.

Its a crap-shoot at times, with no rights or wrongs.......only discoveries.

 

Remember, even as a cover artist your job it to tell a story--albeit a very short simple one. Story, thus drama/excitement/pathos/peril are more imortant that any kind of situational accuracy. Authenticate where you can, but drama must remain the real thrust of your efforts.

 

Think about what you are going to draw before you draw it.

Plan it out with thumbnail sketches.

Hold the drawing up to a mirror and see how it looks reversed--you can spot lots of problems this way.

Make sure composition is sound before commiting to the final drawing.

if it doesn't work, don't kid yourself...........draw it over again.

 

 

Hope this doesn't come across as too brusque, and hope its helped.

 

-Ken

[Samus Aran]

Holy @#$%. Ken, do you critique music at all, by any chance?

[ARROW]

Holy @#$%. Ken, do you critique music at all, by any chance?  

 

If its polka, yes

 

Anything else.........no.

 

:lol:

 

--Ken

[Viper Hunter]

WOW!

 

That was such an informative crit, with TONS of helpful suggestions to boot, I think I may have to try and draw one MYSELF! :lol:

 

That's pretty cool of you Ken, to put that much thought into all that, and take the time to really, and I do mean REALLY give such a professional review of MT's submitted artwork.

[Master Thespian]

Surprisingly, that doesn't frustrate me, because your comments weren't bourne of a mean spirited desire to knock me down. You are entirely correct about your comments about my composition in this piece. I'll even redraw the picture after I finish the next one. Compositional errors can be tough, because they are rules that you can't just figure out without being taught. Thank you.

[Samus Aran]

Holy @#$%. Ken, do you critique music at all, by any chance?  

 

If its polka, yes

 

Anything else.........no.

 

:lol:

 

--Ken

 

Crap.

 

I wish I could find somebody who could/would take that much time and effort to critique original music compositions. Long critiques are the stuff a composer's dreams are made of. But hey, that's another medium for another forum...

 

Anyway, I've got to agree with VH. That was an amazing critique. If I ever wanted to shame myself enough by posting my drawings on here, it's nice to know there are so many fellow artists around. (You, Master T, BA Shipp, CC...etc) 8)

[Outsiders]

You want people to critique your work but if they don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all... Where do you think you live? In some fantasy world?

 

90% of companies are going to find fault in your work and as well as mine and will rip and shred your work to pieces...

 

Anytime you show off your work... You don't ask people what they like about it... You ask what they don't like about it...

[Master Thespian]

No, I didn't say don't tell me what's wrong with it. I just asked him to be polite about it, which he did. I thought about replying back in a snide fashion, but I'm not going to let you bait me, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Outsiders]

No, I didn't say don't tell me what's wrong with it.  I just asked him to be polite about it, which he did.  I thought about replying back in a snide fashion, but I'm not going to let you bait me, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

Throw it back at me cause I'll tell you what I think... I think it's damn good! The background scene is done in a nicely fashion and the lay-out covers it very well...

 

Sure... I think it might have been a little better if you didn't go with the blood and dead people but instead went with something along the lines of the Joes sneakin in but at the same time are being watched... Kind of like what are the Joes going to do next...

 

Overall... I like it and it's better than any drawings I am doing right now...

 

So... Where's this bait you keep talkin about? :wink:

[Master Thespian]

Fair enough, my bad. 8)