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Why I Support Joe vs. Cobra and other assorted thoughts


ProckoZero_Prime

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Hopefully, the way it eventually works out, is that Hasbro will concede to the "wants" of the big 3 retailers, and if the kids latch on to the JvC toys (and it would appear that THEY ARE) then the toys will become a hot commodity to keep well stocked on the shelves, and when everyone involved is making those big bucks off 'em, I would guess the retail chain execs, will backoff, and let Hasbro do their thing as they know how, and some of these "gimmicks" will be phased out or moved into areas more to OUR liking.

 

This is a relaunch of a popular 80's toyline, that we already loved and will buy with or without the added gimmicks, however, I will go ahead and give Hasbro the benefit of the doubt, as to doing WHATEVER it takes to get the toys fresh and on the minds of the next generation of ARAH fans so that it can survive in the field, and then, at that time, they can bring in just about anything that they want, because they're selling, and having on their shelves something that is going to SELL, is hopefully ALL that the "Big 3" wienies are concerned about.

 

I'm going to backoff a bit (towards the all out Hasbro bashing) and see how it turns about over the next several months.

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Look, I'm happy that Joes are making a comeback too, but I think we should keep up the pressure on both Hasbro and the big 3.

 

I've decided that I'll only buy what comes close to ARAH from JvC, but in the mean time, I think i'll go on the secondary market and try to find some of the re-issues that came out over the past three years.

 

Hopefully, that will send a message to Hasbro to do an occasional ARAH run mixed in with JvC. As far as I know, some online stores do show the succses of backordered toys to manufactuerers to encourage re-releases. Wish me luck.

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Look, I'm happy that Joes are making a comeback too, but I think we should keep up the pressure on both Hasbro and the big 3.  

 

I've decided that I'll only buy what comes close to ARAH from JvC, but in the mean time, I think i'll go on the secondary market and try to find some of the re-issues that came out over the past three years.  

 

Hopefully, that will send a message to Hasbro to do an occasional ARAH run mixed in with JvC. As far as I know, some online stores do show the succses of backordered toys to manufactuerers  to encourage re-releases. Wish me luck.

 

This is what I've been doing so far, and what I will continue to do. I'm not gonna buy an ugly-ass figure or vehicle just to "support the line". I don't have that kind of money to burn. Though, I have been known to buy a 2-pack just for the accessories, and that has yet to happen for JvC (I do plan on getting the Duke/Ripper for Duke's gun, and at least the Ripper figure). RAH reissues are still at the top of my priority list when I go Joe shopping.

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Well, now that I have a little more free time, I'm going to write to TRU (this is the one we must really push). These are the elements I think we should include:

 

1. Express our thanks for accpeting the classics as exclusives (its only a little white lie). This will encourage them to read further.

 

2. Express the desire for them to be leiniant on Hasbro and endorse more of the classic molding. Be sure to stress the success of the old line and re-issues. Give some testimonies of some kids you know who prefer the ARAHC as well.

 

3.be sure to recognize that they do have to think about kids since that is their target audience, but also remind them that statistically, the adults buy up more of this line than the kids (quantities I mean) and have a greater appreciation for the line since it is a piece of their childhood.

 

I'm sure Hasbro tried that approach, but hey, it appears that retailers only listen to fans.

 

Again, this is just my approach, but I'm sure they'd respond more favorably to this rather than "You freakin SOBs dunno $h!7 about what we want so go f-ing screw youselves!" Then again... 8)

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Ok, I got the mailing address for the corporate HQ. The guy was kinda pissed that I couldn't understand him so kinda tells ya the aptience level of the guys that work there.

 

Toys "R" Us Corporate HQ

461 From Rd.

Paramus, NJ 07652

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Hmm..seems like the gap that exsists between us collectors, is between those wo have been collecting RAH all along, and wanting more NEW stuff to add to the collection, which JvC is definitely "new" but maybe not quite exactly what we had in mind...

 

And then there seems to be the other side that have taken up the hobby within the last 5 years or so, and trying to build a collection of all that already was of ARAH, and preferring repaints and reissues as a way to go about this, versus the expensive way to collect them all by going through eBay.

 

The difference between wanting NEW figures and even new characters for RAH toys, and just wanting the same ole figures and vehicles repainted and reissued to get back those toys from our childhood.

 

I use to want the later of the two, especially after I first laid eyes on wave 1 of JvC, (AAACK!) but with the last couple waves and with what I'm seeing of wave 5, I can see that some cool (new) things are still capable out of all these changes, without relying on nothing but repaints.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I would still welcome any attempt to repaint some of the 90-94 waves of figures and vehicles, as I think that's when they went all color blind and crazy with the day-glo crap, but something new has to come about eventually, and although JvC started out on a rather DRASTIC note, it's toning down a little at a time, and looking pretty good as of late...with various issues yet to be addressed certainly, but still much better than it all started out.

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Pressuring the Big 3 might work. After all, they DO put out exclusives aimed at us. Im sure kids buy those as well.  

 

Of course Im not sure how to go about it.

 

What do you mean by exclusives here? The RAH repaint exclusives? If you'll notice, it only TRU. And of course the online-stores. Hasbro themselves know how alot of the adult collectors are still into RAH, hence why the BAT 6-pack is ALL RAH molds. The TRU exclusives only show just how TRU knows the fanbase more than Walmart/Target. And TRU is getting Tiger Force 2, and Python Patrol 2, the Arctic Snowcat and the Conquest. All RAH molds. All TRU. So at least TRU is on board for RAH stuff.

 

From what I've heard, those fools at Walmart probably have the biggest voice. They outright demanded the Joes be shipped in 2-packs to get a higher price point. The other 2 (of the Big 3) just rolled with it.

 

Regardless, I still say Hasbro can execute the demands of the retailers better. And some things that Hasbro does muck up, it's on their own accord: some questionable designs (in both figures, weapons and vehicles), horrid paintjobs, and implementation of Sound Attack and other gimmicks.

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Alright 8speed. I stand corrected. Wal Mart is the one we need to convince. Still, it wouldn't hurt to contact the other retailers, but this bubba should be dealt with first.

 

I would have thought that TRU would have more of a say since toys are its specialty and they are more familiar with GI Joe and would want desperately to hook the kiddies.

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Alright 8speed. I stand corrected. Wal Mart is the one we need to convince. Still, it wouldn't hurt to contact the other retailers, but this bubba should be dealt with first.

 

I would have thought that TRU would have more of a say since toys are its specialty and they are more familiar with GI Joe and would want desperately to hook the kiddies.

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Well tru also gets almost all of hasbro's exculsives and it may not be due to smart marketing but corruption

 

this is what i have to say: greedy coperate execs: BAH! g.i.joe: HELL YEAH

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Hmm..seems like the gap that exsists between us collectors, is between those wo have been collecting RAH all along, and wanting more NEW stuff to add to the collection, which JvC is definitely "new" but maybe not quite exactly what we had in mind...

 

And then there seems to be the other side that have taken up the hobby within the last 5 years or so, and trying to build a collection of all that already was of ARAH, and preferring repaints and reissues as a way to go about this, versus the expensive way to collect them all by going through eBay.

 

The difference between wanting NEW figures and even new characters for RAH toys, and just wanting the same ole figures and vehicles repainted and reissued to get back those toys from our childhood.

 

I use to want the later of the two, especially after I first laid eyes on wave 1 of JvC, (AAACK!) but with the last couple waves and with what I'm seeing of wave 5, I can see that some cool (new) things are still capable out of all these changes, without relying on nothing but repaints.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I would still welcome any attempt to repaint some of the 90-94 waves of figures and vehicles, as I think that's when they went all color blind and crazy with the day-glo crap, but something new has to come about eventually, and although JvC started out on a rather DRASTIC note, it's toning down a little at a time, and looking pretty good as of late...with various issues yet to be addressed certainly, but still much better than it all started out.

 

That might be true, but I think overall, we just want better quality, and a little more common sense in the design and paint job department.

 

If anything, I'm definitely the latter. I haven't been collecting Joe all my life, but I am a big fan of GI Joe. I mean collected a few choice Joes between 1985-1993 (bought like 1 figure in 1993, BC Beach Head, not much good stuff in this year). I only had a few Joes and vehicles because, I didn't have a job at 13 years old. By the time I was in high school ('92-'96), I was already out of toys and into comics and various Marvel Trading cards. Got back into Joe Toys in 1999 a little when I got the TRU Slugger ('97 version) and a Battle Force 2000 Dodger and Knockdown 2-pack for 5 bucks. Totally lazy on getting the 2000+ releases 'cause I assumed that they would be around for like 2 years (like the original run). I ended up getting most of them at a slightly higher price (like $15 bucks for the 2000 SE/SS). Still worth it, IMO. But that was only stuff I couldn't find anymore from my TRUs and KayBee's. So that is my story on collecting Joes over the last 5 years or so. Making up for a massively deprived childhood.

 

It'd be my dream come true if Hasbro went instead the way of relaunching Joe exactly the same style as RAH; the same old-style but new scupt Joes. In essense, continuing where RAH left off, mold-wise. Not all this big-shouldered, knuckle-dragging-armed, super-detailed, steroid-addicted, muscle-bound, craptacular abomination of Joe. But to each his own. If ya like JvC, buy it all you want. No one is stopping you.

 

Wave 4 and 5 is looking better, I'll admit. Even Wave 2 and 3 looked pretty good, though I didn't get any of them as they don't fit in with my Joes and the quality issues were rampant. Beach Head and Flint paid homage to the original figures, that was a plus in my book.

 

And it's my understanding that JvC is the way it is because "certain" retailers thought RAH looked too dated. :roll: Which is why it got the facelift (in design and construction) it did in Wave 1.

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Alright 8speed. I stand corrected. Wal Mart is the one we need to convince. Still, it wouldn't hurt to contact the other retailers, but this bubba should be dealt with first.

 

I would have thought that TRU would have more of a say since toys are its specialty and they are more familiar with GI Joe and would want desperately to hook the kiddies.

 

Oh don't let me stop you, I mean if ya' wanna write'em a letter, go for it. Write one to any and all of them.

 

I would think TRU would have the more powerful voice regarding a toy like GI Joe, but I myself was surprised to hear Walmart being such a pain in the ass... demanding sh*t left and right and still doing it to this day.

 

But seeing as how TRU treats Joe on the shelf, it's not really surprising. Only in recent months has TRU given TRU 3 3/4 inch Joes the respect that it deserves. Although more could be done, it's a great start. At least here in NYC. We used to get a small 3x5 foot shelf space (it varied from TRU to TRU and K-Mart and KayBee). Now its at least 3x that, at least in Times Square anyway. But it's early poor shelf display was probably due to there just being Wave 1 on the shelf for all those months until the vehicles came along. The TRUs that I go to skipped all the inbetween Waves (like Wave 1.5, but oddly they are stocking them in force right now. :roll: A little too much, too late as I already picked mine up at a comic convention many months ago... gotta be quicker, TRU).

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I think overall, we just want better quality, and a little more common sense in the design and paint job department.

 

Oh absolutely, and these are all the issues that I'm constantly ranting on and on about as well, and even though I'm starting to "soften" up on my hard position against the changes as they first came about, I still wish for the issues you've mentioned above, to get some better focus and attention paid too them.

 

It'd be my dream come true if Hasbro went instead the way of relaunching Joe exactly the same style as RAH; the same old-style but new scupt Joes. In essense, continuing where RAH left off, mold-wise. Not all this big-shouldered, knuckle-dragging-armed, super-detailed, steroid-addicted, muscle-bound, craptacular abomination of Joe.

 

That was my initial hopes for the line, when it first showed back up in 97, but it was just repaints of old figures, and like you, I didn't grab them up right away, thinking they'd be on the shelves in the fashion they always ONCE were, and subsequently lost out on getting a few of them in the process. I was really starting to get burnt out on all the repaints of old figures by wave 4 of the ARAHC line, and the few attempted NEW head sculpts were laughable and by the end of the run of them, the fleshtones were so pale it was ridiculous. Right now, with JvC, it's all about the whacked out proportions, that's keeping me from rating them as high as the RAH figures of past, and not some "old man, hanging on to the past, looking for nostalgia" type sentiments or reasons I've seen tossed out as an excuse for not liking the JvC stuff. It's the funky inconsistent proportions...mostly!

 

But to each his own. If ya like JvC, buy it all you want. No one is stopping you.

 

Or at least what I DO "like"...which is all anyone should be expected to buy anyway..right? What they do like! 8) The same sentiment holds true for those even less keen on the JvC line, in that no one is forcing them to buy anything they DON'T like. I'm sympathetic to the problem they face though, that something they really enjoy and WANT to do, is being reduced to a level of almost nonexsistence for them, and that's what is frustrating for them..I know, I was in that boat at first, but I'm seeing some good things...but think some more even BETTER things are needed and will drastically help. It's not a simple matter of..as some will say around here.."if you don't like it, don't buy it!" blah, blah, blah, :roll: If they don't buy it, because they don't like it, they're not engaging in something that once gave them alot of joy and entertainment...and THAT is what is hard to take...silly as it might seem.

 

 

And it's my understanding that JvC is the way it is because "certain" retailers thought RAH looked too dated.  :roll:  Which is why it got the facelift (in design and construction) it did in Wave 1.

 

The world may never know! :wink: Like you said before, it's probably an idea or two of what the retail execs want Hasbro to include in the functions and appearances of the toys, which includes what they perceive to be features (gimmicks) that are hot sellers amongst other various toylines, and then it's all a matter of HOW Hasbro decides to execute these demands, and THAT'S where we can point the finger at Hasbro themselves and suggest maybe a little better approach, that's not so obnoxious, and makes the toys so incompatible with their predecessors.

 

I still think that once the toys get popular again with the kids as an additional fanbase, the retail execs will loosen the rains quite a bit, and we'll see even better changes to the line, of ALL our liking.

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I too agree as the line's sale get bigger it will get better. Hasbro can then afford to offer bigger stuff for cheaper, better vehilces minus sound acrap and other stuff geared to us collectors, or so the hope goes.

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I think there have been some pretty good first steps already. Dart from wave 4 has one of the most proportionate bodies in the line so far. If they make more figures like him (Wave 5 seems to be doing this) and less like their previous efforts, the line should please almost everybody.

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I think there have been some pretty good first steps already.  Dart from wave 4 has one of the most proportionate bodies in the line so far.  If they make more figures like him (Wave 5 seems to be doing this) and less like their previous efforts, the line should please almost everybody.

 

Totally. It's just a shame though, since we'll probably never get to see characters that they botched revisited in that way:

 

1. Zartan

2. Flint

3. Shipwreck

4. Dusty

5. Baroness

6. Snow Serpent

7. Scarlett

 

All of these new figures could have been awesome, but due to either just plain crap sculpting and design (Zartan) or horrid proportions (Flint, Baroness, Snow Serpent) the overall quality was degraded quite significantly.

 

There is some hope, though, since we'll hopefully see a Masked Cobra Commander (hopefully without the enormous chest and shoulders and arms on little chicken legs, but knowing Hasbro, it'll be the same O-ring mold with a new head :evil: )

 

And hopefully we'll also see GOOD versions of Storm Shadow and Destro. The others I can just try to appreciate the good aspects of the figures, and realize that the more figures that come out, the more figs I get to put up on my display, and the bad things about the figures that I can't or don't fix with customizing will become less and less noticeable.

 

It sucks to always have that thing nagging in the back of your head, that if Hasbro had really given it a go from day one, we would ALL have awesome, DEFINITIVE versions of our favorite old and new Joe and Cobra characters, and this board would be posts going:

 

"A Real American what now??!!!" :lol:

 

As it stands, though, I find it pretty sad that we're constantly having to refer to toys that are 15-20 years old. And the fact that Hasbro itself STILL has to keep going back to the old molds time and time again has to tell you something, too . . .

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Totally!!!  And I'd add someone like Zartan, but since he's already been released twice it's kind of a lost cause.  I think I'll make a custom version with Burnout or something to tide me over.  

 

Of course, didn't we see that god-awful Destro mold used like 3 times or something??!!

 

Oh well . . .

 

Don't think of releases like that. Every JvC mold will have multiple releases to help pay for the mold. The repaints will be released to make more money. It's just that simple.

 

Snake-Eyes saw 2 JvC versions in the same year, it can happen.

 

Rumor has it that a new Storm Shadow is in the works, complete with O-ring. Destro might happen too. These two are not totally out there, but in fact quite a possibility.

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Yeah there is even concept art for a new stormy but we were told wave6, who knows? Hopefully we will see a new zartan this year i mean c'mon he is the spy! and covergirl too! okay the later probably won't happen but hey, i can dream.

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Yeah there is even concept art for a new stormy but we were told wave6, who knows? Hopefully we will see a new zartan this year i mean c'mon he is the spy! and covergirl too! okay the later probably won't happen but hey, i can dream.

 

Yea, I hear ya. I wouldn't mind seeing all the Joe chicks released. Most of them are spies I think, as most of them are in the intelligence field (at least Scarlett, Lady Jaye, Jinx, Vypra and Baroness are).

 

And Cover Girl is an Armor Specialist. :wink:

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