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Jon and Karl Hartman Fired from Botcon?


OFP2002

Are you happy with how 3H Productions has handled the Unicron situation?  

  1. 1. Are you happy with how 3H Productions has handled the Unicron situation?

    • YES
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    • NO
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That is well drawn up scenario Proudwolf. Many of us have no way of knowing, for sure the exact events that led Grlen Hallit to his decision. And I don't doubt that as a possibility. But One thing alot of fans fear, is Hasbro's future involvement in Botcon. While it opens up possibilities to more creative exclusives and the possibility of more star pressence in the form of voice actors, etc. People have seen how Hasbro has mismanaged every oppurtunity to please the collecting community. Need examples, here are a few:

 

1. The total mishandling of the Heroes of Cybertron release. A good amount of fans are still without these figures, and may never get them. Hasbro's response, that's what online auction site's are for, and we are bringing transformers to places that normally wouldn't carry them. All good and well, but they could have at least offered the first wave to online retailers. All subsequent waves will be, but the initial blunder can't be fixed.

 

2. Fort Max. Had they labeled it a collector's piece instead of for children 8 and up, this whole mess wouldn't have happened. How many parents are going to go online and searching for this figure and then pay over $100 after shipping costs.

 

3. Reissues. Fans had been demanding reissues for almost 10 years. They finally bring them out only to release ones that most fans already got from Takara.

 

I fear Hasbro's involvement in Botcon. Alot of good ideas will be nixed before ever seeing the ligh of day. That's why this is such a sad event to happen.

Joe

 

p.s.

Sorry for the rant

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Okay, now for the Hard Hero situation.

 

Since Glen's overtly lied about the recent event with the takeover, it's safe to assume that his comments about Hard Hero are a bit --- 'coloured' as well.

 

We know that Hard Hero had a few sculpts ready in time for BotCon 2002, but Glen nixed each one of them, delaying actual release until the convention. (Source: Hard Hero) Glen admitted to demanding changes in the mold, but didn't admit openly that this /was/ the cause for the delay. In fact, he just cited Hard Hero's inability to produce the figures.

 

The figures are produced and ready, but weren't paid for. Glen apparently didn't forward funds /to/ Hard Hero. Glen decides that the fans should foot the bill for shipping, passing along further costs. Nevermind that the shipping cost being 'soaked' would have left Glen with about 70% profit on each figure.

 

Hard Hero, sick of holding on to this very large order for no money, sells it for their suggested retail - not taking a loss. This amount is /half/ of what Glen was charging. Meaning again that Glen (as 3H) was making a full 100% profit on each figure sold.

 

The more I hear about this, the less I sympathize with Glen.

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I fear Hasbro's involvement in Botcon. Alot of good ideas will be nixed before ever seeing the ligh of day. That's why this is such a sad event to happen.

 

To be fair, Hasbro has done damn good jobs with their GI Joe conventions, and passable jobs in their involvement in various Star Wars conventions. I think that their track-record is far superior to that of Glen "PrimeZ" Halit acting alone.

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I wouldn't call it a "spin". The perception of this situation does not benefit myself one way or another, so it couldn't possibly be a spin.

 

I prefer to see it as a "different point of view"... one that villifies no one and tries to see the "big picture" and hopes for a positive outcome.

 

As I said, I could be grossly inaccurate about how it all went down, but I like to try to see the best in everyone. When you start doubting people with no solid grounds for doing so and base those doubts on only one point of view, those doubts begin to snowball and you find yourself villifying decent people based on assumptions and grossy misinterpreted information. I've made that mistake before, and it took a long time for me to see the error of it all. In the end, I had to do the right thing and apologize for being dead wrong about someone. I let my paranoia and desire to prove my doubts to be correct to get the better of me. In the end, all I did was hurt myself and my own image.

 

But back to the topic at hand...

 

I think it can be best summed by Obi-wan Kenobi's words in Return of the Jedi...

 

"You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

 

I'm not ready to condemn Glen or make snap judgements of his character based on this ugly incident. The truth is... we don't know all sides of the story.

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I'm not ready to condemn Glen or make snap judgements of his character based on this ugly incident.  The truth is... we don't know all sides of the story.

 

I condemn Glen "PrimeZ" Halit because he did, and has, outright lied on this matter to absolve himself of any guilt in these issues. This time, his lie was blatantly obvious. He did fire Jon and Karl , and threatened legal action against them both so that he could take the convention two years before they planned to retire.

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Hey Proudwolf Prime, you must be one of those groupies I was talking about. Cut it with the patronizing BS. Halibut isn't going to do you any favors for sucking up. PUH-leeze! He has already demonstrated that he'd sue his brother for their last name.

 

Your "Business Man" scenario is a joke. Think about it for a second. BotCon is nothing more than a fan event. The money to be made from it is chump change. It has been well publicized that these guys loose money or barely break even on it. This is pure ego we're dealing with here. What else can explain people scrapping over a money loosing prospect?

 

The bottom line is he threatened to take them out in court. Over something like BotCon? That a joke if you ask me. If Glen had an ounce of decency or respect for the *founders* he would have gone out of his way to keep the Hartman bros. on board. No matter what anyone says, there is no justifiable reason for ousting them like that. Jesus, giving an ultimatum of just one day to decide!?! That is just an evil thing to do to anyone.

 

There would be no BotCon were it not for the Hartman brothers. We all know from experience they are good, decent and above all modest people. We all now know that Glen Hallit is a controlling egotistical maniac. This was perfectly reflected in his response posted on TFormers when he said he could not believe people where slamming him for all he's done. Since when do people get praise for messing things up?

 

Glen Hallit you are nothing important in the world or this fandom. You are famous now. But not for anything people will like you for.

 

You have not contributed to the greater good here. The Hartman’s started BotCon. You are dismantling it.

 

You have not helped anyone cope with the world or this fandom in a better way. You sir are doing nothing but creating more problems for people.

 

How dare you take one of the few things that people have to find pleasure and an escape in the world and turn it into your very own circus from hell!

 

WAKE UP! No one cares about you for doing what you did with BotCon. As a matter of fact they now hate you for it!

 

If all you care about is money then go play around in the stock market or something.

 

Its well known now that you dislike the fandom because they detract from you being the #1 fan.

 

PLEASE GO AWAY NOW. WE DO NOT WANT YOU AND YOUR STKINING BOTCON OR YOUR DAMN FAN CLUB!

 

DONT LET THIS GUYS RUN CALL THE SHOTS ANYMORE!

 

BOYCOTT BOTCON!

 

START YOUR OWN LOCAL TF FEST.

 

THE FANS SHOULD OWN THE CON!!!

 

ITS ABOUT US AND SHOULD BE RUN BY US!!!

 

Out!

 

McDj

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I apologize to OFP2002, looks liek you were right.  My bad for saying you were just here to stir up trouble.  Sorry.

 

Tijjy, you and I have had a lot of tiffs over the past few months, and we probably will have more in the coming months. But this act right here has filled me with great respect for you - much more than I've had for many other people in the fandom. Kudos for admitting that you were wrong and apologizing for it.

 

Well then you're about to lose respect for me again. Cuz I take back my apology. OFP2002 has started his own third thread on this subject matter. There were already two polls that he started that were the same thing and he could've easily posted in his two threads, or in the thread Tony started. Instead he goes and makes his own thread. It seems more than anything that he has nothing but beef with Glen.

 

And by the by, we've had tiffs? I mean alot? A few maybe, but not alot.

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Hey Proudwolf Prime, you must be one of those groupies I was talking about. Cut it with the patronizing BS. Halibut isn't going to do you any favors for sucking up. PUH-leeze! He has already demonstrated that he'd sue his brother for their last name.  

McDj

 

Are you just trying to be an ass or something? The hell is your problem?

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Well then you're about to lose respect for me again.  Cuz I take back my apology.  OFP2002 has started his own third thread on this subject matter.  There were already two polls that he started that were the same thing and he could've easily posted in his two threads, or in the thread Tony started.  Instead he goes and makes his own thread.  It seems more than anything that he has nothing but beef with Glen.  

 

 

Not that I need to explain but I will. The 3rd thread I posted was a discussion thread based on fact, not around rumor as my 2 previous threads. It is a thread where people can voice either their displeasure or other feelings on what has now come officially to light, that they were fired.

Do I have a beef with Glen? Your Damn Right I have a beef. I have kept my mouth shut on many things I have seen over the years. These posts are the first ones I have ever put up. But this whole thing was the last straw. Anyone who knows Jon and Karl and knows what they have done for the collecting community should be outraged. Do you have ANY idea what a slap in the face this is to them. This was their show and they made Glen a part of it, shared it with him. But that isn't good enough for him. He wants it all to himself. And make no mistake, the fans are good for one thing to him: to send him money so he can keep doing what he wants to do for him. We are NOTHING to him. We were EVERYTHING to Jon and Karl. WE were why they did the show. Don't get me wrong, they enjoyed doing it for themselves as well, who wouldn't. But the Fans were always the First priority to them, treating everyone equally and with respect. I can say this because I guarantee I have known them longer and better than most anyone on these boards. And that my friends has been my priveledge.

 

Finally, Macro-con said it best:

 

"There would be no BotCon were it not for the Hartman brothers. We all know from experience they are good, decent and above all modest people. We all now know that Glen Hallit is a controlling egotistical maniac. This was perfectly reflected in his response posted on TFormers when he said he could not believe people where slamming him for all he's done. Since when do people get praise for messing things up?

 

Glen Hallit you are nothing important in the world or this fandom. You are famous now. But not for anything people will like you for.

 

You have not contributed to the greater good here. The Hartman’s started BotCon. You are dismantling it.

 

You have not helped anyone cope with the world or this fandom in a better way. You sir are doing nothing but creating more problems for people.

 

How dare you take one of the few things that people have to find pleasure and an escape in the world and turn it into your very own circus from hell!"

 

All of you who doubt what we are saying then I say look at the facts. Make no mistake, what happened to Jon and Karl was WRONG in Every sense of the word. Jon was as committed to this show as he was to the very first one he did, maybe even more so. Karl told me on Sunday of Botcon 2002 that this was his favorite of ALL the Botcon's. Prowdwolf Prime, does this sound like 2 guys who had lost their drive?

 

The Hartman's were unwillingly fired from the show THEY created. Nuff said!

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There was no need to start a new thread, since you'd alrewady started two and Tony did the new post. You could have easily put it in his thread. Instead you shoose to flood this board with you're "I HATE GLEN!" antics. Gah! This is a disscussion board, not your personal attack board.

 

*edit*

The back story to that, also important to why the Hartmans did sign, is that they were thinking about getting out of the convention prior to that. Communication of ideas had been gradually decreasing over the last couple years, and tempers had flared as far back as BotCon 1998 when Glen stated that he felt Jon and Karl should either show more effort toward organizing the convention or just come as attendees....Karl was going to resign from the convention at the BotCon 2002 organizer's panel. The only thing stopping him at that point was the mess with the Unicron Statue. There was enough conflict and anger floating around from it not being there, he did not want to add to that by announcing his resignation. As much as he disliked the way he and Hallit and communicated and worked together for the last year, he still did not want to jeopardize the convention as a whole. So he stayed. Only to have what happened in Chicago occur.......And they actually, without any of this negative stuff, were thinking of retiring from it in 2004, a solid 10 years from when they organized the first BotCon. They just state that they wish their leaving of the convention did not occur like this, not on their own terms.

 

They were already wanting out of it. Sure it didn't come when they wanted to, which indeed sucks. But they still wanted out and have been for some time now. There's more info than any of us will probably ever know, but that's between Glen, Jon and Karl.

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They were already wanting out of it.  Sure it didn't come when they wanted to, which indeed sucks.  But they still wanted out and have been for some time now.  There's more info than any of us will probably ever know, but that's between Glen, Jon and Karl.

 

You don't get it do you? Read again the part of their statement you put up about them "wanting out" Better yet, here it is:

 

"And they actually, without any of this negative stuff, were thinking of retiring from it in 2004, a solid 10 years from when they organized the first BotCon. "

 

You see that? THINKING is the key word. Furthermore, that would still be after TWO more shows. 3h has only produced six shows. It's not like they have been doing this for 30 years, so whats a couple more years. Two more shows is a lot. Its not like they were planning on getting out of it in a couple months from now either.

 

Furthermore, I don't hate Glen. I do however hate what he has done. If good friends of yours were treated with the same disrespect and backstabbing that the Hartman's have been shown, then you would feel the same way. Any true friend would!

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And obviously YOU and Macro-con don't get it.

 

Overall, they have no ill will towards the convention as a whole, and do not support any type of boycotting or whatever else has spawned out of the fandom rumor mill. Hopefully the spirit of what they started will live on in one form or another, because that is what this is all about. Having fun, enjoying Transformers for what they are, and sharing it with the people who enjoy the same.

 

There. Deal with it.

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And obviously YOU and Macro-con don't get it.  

 

Overall, they have no ill will towards the convention as a whole, and do not support any type of boycotting or whatever else has spawned out of the fandom rumor mill. Hopefully the spirit of what they started will live on in one form or another, because that is what this is all about. Having fun, enjoying Transformers for what they are, and sharing it with the people who enjoy the same.

 

There. Deal with it.

 

I agree with them as well. That does not mean that people in positions such as Glen's should not be held accountable for dishonest and disrespectful procedures and tactics.

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Hah! I love it! This is soooo typical of the fanboy suck up crap that is at the root of all this. Glen with the rest of you have fallen into the very fanboy gator pit you created. Only he has managed to scratch and claw his way to the top of it. And you all love it!

 

Face the reality folks. Most of you are getting upset over nothing but toys! When you put what Halibut has done to people who took him as a friend only for him to turn around and take them out as an enemy into context it looks really really bad! Serious this is all over some friggin' toys!?! GASP! MY GOD!!! WTF!!! REALLY WTF!!!

 

How can you not see this is off the "uncool thing to do" scale? This is sad and pitiful and nothing but Glen's circus from hell. I have been in this fandom since 96'. Then you were amazed just to find other TF fans. With BotCon and now with these TF Websites we have people dedicating large portions of their lives to being the king of some fanboy mountain. Do you know how pitiful that is? Apparently not. I just dare you to contest that. It is so obvious. A 10 year old could see it. If you do not. Please get some help.

 

So go ahead, stroke Halibut all you want. Its your own envy of him that is driving you. You expose yourselves when you *speculate* on why he is NOT a supreme jerk when there is documented *proof* that he IS. Do not deny it. TF fans are notorious for such things. Again soooo pathetic!

 

Bring it on. Take offense all you want. You are clearly in denial about it and instantly feel like you are being attacked when ever anyone points it out!

 

I want to say this to those of you (cough, like BIGBOT.com, cough, scalpers, cough!) that only want to capitalize on the people that love for these toys and the legacy that follows them. You better take a good hard look here at these words people duel with in place of swords. You are the cause of this ugliness. Your lack of passion and single minded maniacal efforts to milk the fans of their green has gone on long enough. We are pissed and we are not gonna take it any more. Make no mis-steps as Mr. Halibut has. Or you too soon enough will find yourselves in this very meat grinder that has been cast from the casualties of your evil schemes.

 

The rest of you decent, self-less, good hearted, sincere fun-loving people who contribute to the fandom by being open minded, modest and generous. You are our gods. You are the ones that give us hope to continue on these rough seas. Fear not, we are behind you. We support you and believe in you. We all know who you are. As fans we will focus on you and help you as you have done for us. Thank you! Peace to you and the good fans. I apologize for my acidic words here. They are not directed at the good folk.

 

McDj @*-#!)+@%

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I've been in this fandom since 96'.

 

I've been here since '86, Macro. Gotcha beat j/k

 

But I agree with you, that wasn't the right thing to do to the Hartmans. If it was a lower employee, it'd be fine. But as I understand, these guys started the whole thing and it doesn't seem right to rob them of it... and that "Only-good-for-right-now" offer was very *very* cruel of Hallit. He knew what he was doing, and it really makes me question what he's made of.

 

Tom

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I've got you both beat then, I've been with the fandom since '84.

 

This is soooo typical of the fanboy suck up crap that is at the root of all this.

 

And your post is soooooo typical of someone who is getting upset over other people getting upset over toys. Trust me, you're worse.

 

You are our gods. You are the ones that give us hope to continue on these rough seas. Fear not, we are behind you. We support you and believe in you. We all know who you are. As fans we will focus on you and help you as you have done for us.

 

Wow, when did you do a poll to find out who was behind who? Maybe you should learn to speak for yourself instead of trying to speak about everybody.

 

You contact Karl Hartman and ask him WHY he wanted to leave. It's time you broaden your horizons.

 

Actually, I'm trying to stay neutrel in this and not get involved, but when some jackass decides to jump on a message board to start bad mouthing someone else, I step in. This is between Jon & Karl and Glenn. Let THEM take care of what they gotta do, instead of trying to fan the flames of hate.

 

furthermore ask yourselves why Glen was unable to make payments for the Unicron statues to Hard Heroes on time even though people had sent in their money months prior thus leading Hard Heroes to terminate the contract. I bet there is even more to this story than meets the eye!

 

Umm, try he made payment for the statues that were paid for, just not the others that were supposed to be sold AT the 'Con. At least from what I know, not all of us are privy to your information.

 

My main point is this is between the members of 3H, all of you haters are only making things worse... well not really, this is the internet...

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All you 'haters', Tijjy? Come on, are we now at the point the people who still think Glenn's in the wrong here are just mindless 'haters'? They can't just call up Glenn being an #$### on this one particular instantance without being a 'hater'?

 

Bill Clinton and CNN would be proud of this level of spin...

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I've got you both beat then, I've been with the fandom since '84.

 

This isn't a contest. I don't need any of you to no how long I've been a fan and I don't care how long you have been fans. It's just cool that your fans. Macr-con was just making a small comment about when he came into the "fandom" and you turned even a little thing like that into a " Hey , I've been aroung since 84' so look at me."

 

My main point is this is between the members of 3H, all of you haters are only making things worse... well not really, this is the internet...

 

And your main point could not be more wrong. What Glen has done was WRONG in every sense of the word. WHENEVER people do something like this, whether it be in the world of toys, business, education, politics or whatever area you want to choose, people should be held accountable. Why you want to give him a "you can screw over whoever you want" pass is completely beyond me. This whole thing involves all of us because if he is willing to do this to the Hartman's then what would he be willing to do to the fans? Maybe you had a good exchange with him, thats great. I have had many good exchanges with him. I'm not on here saying he is the Devil or that "I hate him" and I would appreciate it if you would stop implying that I have. However, his recent actions, compounded with other situations he has been involved in, has brought this to a head. What he has done is absolutely deplorable and should not be tolerated.

 

Furthermore, this goes WELL beyond Botcon because he is also the guy who is going to be running the Fan Club. It has been stated that he doesn't even like the fans and now he's going to be running a Fan club that is for ....the fans?

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tjmd has a problem with there being 3 threads on this subject. That's fine. It was not my intent to "flood" the boards. I started the 3rd "Official" thread when all of this became official and was no longer a rumor. I figured this thread would go away and a new one would start. However, this is the thread that seems to be getting all of the attention so I ask everyone to please ignore the other "Hartman related" threads and to post any comments, questions or concerns here. Thanks You!

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All you 'haters', Tijjy? Come on, are we now at the point the people who still think Glenn's in the wrong here are just mindless 'haters'? They can't just call up Glenn being an #@*% on this one particular instantance without being a 'hater'?

 

Bill Clinton and CNN would be proud of this level of spin...

 

No, but people blow things wildly out of control to get a nut off, yes. Mindless, no. Haters, yes. So things seems eh right now. Such is life, we don't have to like it, we just have to deal with it. I'm I happy about the way things went down? No. Does it effect my everyday way of living? No. Will I go on? Yes.

 

This isn't a contest. I don't need any of you to no how long I've been a fan and I don't care how long you have been fans. It's just cool that your fans. Macr-con was just making a small comment about when he came into the "fandom" and you turned even a little thing like that into a " Hey , I've been aroung since 84' so look at me."

 

I was poking some fun at the whole situation, too. I guess I should use the j/k for some of you that may not understand though, no?

 

Why you want to give him a "you can screw over whoever you want" pass is completely beyond me.

 

Wow, why you want to put words in my mouth is beyond me.

 

Maybe you had a good exchange with him, thats great. I have had many good exchanges with him. I'm not on here saying he is the Devil or that "I hate him" and I would appreciate it if you would stop implying that I have.

 

I've never dealt with him, but hopefully I'll get to meet all three of them next year. Woooh, looks like we were both implying then, messed up, no?

 

Furthermore, this goes WELL beyond Botcon because he is also the guy who is going to be running the Fan Club. It has been stated that he doesn't even like the fans and now he's going to be running a Fan club that is for ....the fans?

 

It has been stated where? I'd like a link to this statement. Anyways just because he doesn't like some of this fandom, does not mean he hates everybody.

 

tjmd has a problem with there being 3 threads on this subject.

 

Yes, cuz you had already started two polls that were the same exact thing. Tony started a thread with a link to the info and you started your third, the fourth on this board instead of just adding to his. If I were a mod, I'd be pissed you were flooding my board and using it as your personal vendetta board (or whatever you want to call it.)

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Yes, cuz you had already started two polls that were the same exact thing. Tony started a thread with a link to the info and you started your third, the fourth on this board instead of just adding to his.  If I were a mod, I'd be pissed you were flooding my board and using it as your personal vendetta board (or whatever you want to call it.)

 

If your going to make comments, be accurate. The polls were COMPLETELY different. One asked if you like how 3H handled the Unicron issue. The other asked if people thought the Hartman's had been fired or not. Does that look like the same exact thing? Furthermore, you are NOT a mod so quit acting like it. If both Tony and I started one that is the mods concern, not yours. If you do not want to discuss the issue that is being discussed on this thread , thats fine. If you think were all "haters" thats fine too. You have made moronic comments all through this thread. You've been proven wrong on many points. I can and have backed up ALL comments I have made. Just move on to another thread if you wish, but quit attacking those who post their feelings on this and other threads. I'm sure others would agree. Thanks!

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