Jon and Karl Hartman Fired from Botcon?

[OFP2002]

It is now "Official" that Jon and Karl Hartman have been Fired from Botcon. I have deleted the previous message that filled this spot and have replaced it with what is the current situation. The first half of this post will be the Hartman's statement and the seconf half will be my view on this matter. Please post any comments, questions or concerns on this thread and/or I suggest you email them directly to info@botcon.com .Thank You!

 

This is straight from the front page of Transfandom.com....

 

A couple of days ago, Karl Hartman emailed me about statements regarding BotCon surfacing on the main page of Transfandom.com. Things were not as they seemed, and it was time to at least state what was going on behind the scenes from Karl and Jon's perspective. The following is what they had to say. Most of this is general paraphrasing, as it was casual conversations. All of this has been reviewed by the Hartmans prior to putting this online.

 

About a month after BotCon 2002, Glen Hallit asked Karl and Jon Hartman to travel to Chicago. They met in the convention center where BotCon 2003 is set to take place. Discussion about BotCon 2002 happened, and Hallit stated that in his opinion this year was the worst due to organizational mishaps. In Hallit's view this was because of orders that had wrong amounts of toys listed, and the Hartmans were responsible on that end. He also felt as if they had lost their creative drive for organizing the convention. So what Glen Hallit decided to do is offer them a release, a contract stating that they renounce the right to participate in any official organization or creative control of future BotCon events, thus giving Glen complete control. This contract was only good for that day, that meeting, in which the Hartmans were not informed about what it was for, nor given an opportunity to gain outside input for their decisions. Both had to sign or the offer was no good. If this did not happen, then Glen implied legal action to remove them from the duties. The aspects that Glen did include in the contract included free copies of the exclusives, transportation to and from future events for them and their collection to display, their own panel, and to be billed as the "founding fathers" of the event. The term "Sounding Board" was used as well, stating that the Hartmans would be used to run ideas and concepts past them, yet nothing they say would need be used, they had no veto power so to say. In this contract, the name BotCon, owned by the Hartmans, would be leased to Hallit on a yearly basis. If all of this was not agreed upon, then the offer goes, and it was implied that it would become a legal battle. Since the Hartmans were not suited for a legal battle, and just wanted the event to live on, the name BotCon to continue on, they signed. Jon found it easier to deal with, as it was a way to recoup prior convention costs, and to not risk anything further. Karl stated that he was actually in tears on the way home from that meeting, a mixture of frustration, anger, and sadness rolled into one.

 

The back story to that, also important to why the Hartmans did sign, is that they were thinking about getting out of the convention prior to that. Communication of ideas had been gradually decreasing over the last couple years, and tempers had flared as far back as BotCon 1998 when Glen stated that he felt Jon and Karl should either show more effort toward organizing the convention or just come as attendees. Karl was also not involved in any of the planning of the exclusive toys for this year's convention. He saw the convention exclusive Cyclonus toy for the first time when it surfaced on an internet site, completely done in box at a Japanese hobby shop (a leaked pre production version, probably from the Asian production facility). Karl stated that he did not know, at all, that 3H Enterprises, had been officially incorporated and named as 3H Productions Incorporated until Glen announced it at the dinner, as he sat there next to him. So all of that, and many other things, lead to a decision that did not materialize at first. Karl was going to resign from the convention at the BotCon 2002 organizer's panel. The only thing stopping him at that point was the mess with the Unicron Statue. There was enough conflict and anger floating around from it not being there, he did not want to add to that by announcing his resignation. As much as he disliked the way he and Hallit and communicated and worked together for the last year, he still did not want to jeopardize the convention as a whole. So he stayed. Only to have what happened in Chicago occur. During this same time, Jon was in contact with Glen more often, and did know more than Karl on many matters per se. However Jon did express feeling that info to him from Glen was a secondary matter.

 

To wrap up, the Hartmans have no future plans or desire to run a separate convention. And they actually, without any of this negative stuff, were thinking of retiring from it in 2004, a solid 10 years from when they organized the first BotCon. They just state that they wish their leaving of the convention did not occur like this, not on their own terms. They do plan to attend every BotCon event in one way or another, either as guests or as fans, but their official involvement in 3H Productions, Inc. is done in all regards -- BotCon, the future Fan Club, or anything else planned. Overall, they have no ill will towards the convention as a whole, and do not support any type of boycotting or whatever else has spawned out of the fandom rumor mill. Hopefully the spirit of what they started will live on in one form or another, because that is what this is all about. Having fun, enjoying Transformers for what they are, and sharing it with the people who enjoy the same.

 

 

OFP2002

Cobra Soldier

 

 

Joined: 15 Oct 2002

Posts: 23

 

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:31 am Post subject:

 

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Most of you who have read my previous postings know my feelings on this matter. What I want to know is your feelings. Before posting any comments please read through the Hartman's statement that was posted a short time ago but I also want you to reread a statement made by Glen Hallit 2 days ago on Tformers.com in response to the rumors which we now know as fact. Here it is:

 

UPDATE (9:30 PM PST): Glenn Hallit sent us a respose to the flurry of rumors posted online that the Hartman brothers have been fired from 3H: "The rumors are completely untrue­ Jon and Karl were NOT fired (how do you fire founders anyway?). It is true there has been some restructuring, but Jon and Karl will always be involved in EVERY BotCon event." Glen says he will provide a more detailed update on this in the future.

 

"Restructuring?" It is interesting that he would choose that word to describe the forcing out of the 2 guys who started the show. Jon and Karl did this show for the fans, thats the way they started it, and thats how they felt at the end of the day. Glen Hallit does the show for himself and only cares about his interests. I don't care how you slice it. What does it say about a person who is brought into something as special and unique as Botcon and then goes behind the backs of the 2 guys who started it, secures the license to do the official TF convention for himself, and then forces the guys who started the show out. It is wrong no matter how you look at it. If you disagree, then by all means say so. However, if you do agree then I ask that you make your voice heard here and to also email info@botcon.com and let Glen Hallit know how you feel. Thank You.

[Reminator]

:evil: :evil: Hm.....I don't know too much about Botcon nor the people who work over there. I went to their site.....and...I don't see any information that I want to see...maybe I'm not viewing the right section.

 

Anyhow, if those two guys....play important role in the transformers world than.....it's definitely a big loss for transfans.

[jmillustrator]

May I ask where you are hearing this news from. I haven't seen it anywhere else. And if it is true, then Botcon itself will probably not last long. I'll keep my ears to the ground.

Joe

[OFP2002]

I am unable to say where I heard the info, but check out Transfandom.com within the next few days. My rumor will be confirmed then.

[jmillustrator]

Ok so the news is true. And it goes alot deeper than the Unicron statue. In a few days the news itself will go totally public. Maybe as early as friday, but most probably next week. From what I've heard the Hartman's are getting a bit of a raw deal here. I seriously doubt that Glen Hallit has the ability to keep Botcon running for very long. Plus, alot of people are going to be left out to dry with this statue. It's a sad day for Transfans everywhere. I'll keep everyone updated if I hear more.

Joe

[Reminator]

:evil: :evil: What's the deal with Unicron mess??? And why is Joe certainly confident with the information regarding the firing when he wasn't sure a couple of minute ago?? Lastly.....why is Botcon important???

[OFP2002]

" A bit of a raw deal" is quite the understatement. This was there show. They brought Glen in and from everything I know, which is more than most to be honest, the chaos that has happened at each Botcon has been the result of Glen's mismanagement. When Jon and Karl did the first show back in 1994, which I was at, they did it for the fans. Glen does the show for one person: Himself! When this thing goes public I believe enough people will be upset and will let 3H productions know it and hopefully Hasbro as well.

[OFP2002]

If you don't know why Botcon is important then you have probably never been to one. It's evertything Transformers rolled up into one weekend. Every dealer table, all the rooms of art and panels, Just being completely surrounded by the stufft's It's just a really cool time! (Or used to be anyways)

[jmillustrator]

I've heard just about the same thing. I have a close friend who is privy to alot of important info, and when I saw this post, I gave him a call. He's confirmed everything that OFP is saying. Hard Hero is damn pissed about this Unicron thing. Basically 3H owes Hard Hero a whole lotta money for the statues. And since the amount hasn't been paid, they terminated the contract they had with 3H. Now they are shipping the remaining statues out to other retailers (Big Bad Toy Store, Action Figure Xpress) so people can get the staues. Also 3H has been gouging the shipping prices for the statues they were selling.

 

Botcon is important because it basically resurected Transformers. Collecting TF's was a niche thing until the Hartman's got involved with Botcon. It also sparked alot of people, who may have been mildly interested before, to really start collecting Transformers.

Joe

[Reminator]

I've heard just about the same thing. I have a close friend who is privy to alot of important info, and when I saw this post, I gave him a call. He's confirmed everything that OFP is saying. Hard Hero is damn pissed about this Unicron thing. Basically 3H owes Hard Hero a whole lotta money for the statues. And since the amount hasn't been paid, they terminated the contract they had with 3H. Now they are shipping the remaining statues out to other retailers (Big Bad Toy Store, Action Figure Xpress) so people can get the staues. Also 3H has been gouging the shipping prices for the statues they were selling.  

 

Botcon is important because it basically resurected Transformers. Collecting TF's was a niche thing until the Hartman's got involved with Botcon. It also sparked alot of people, who may have been mildly interested before, to really start collecting Transformers.  

Joe

 

:evil: :evil: Thanks Joe for the clarification (oh yeah OFP too). So...now that Hard Hero is shipping to the other retailers.....does that mean the price of Unicron will drop as oppose to before where it was only handle by 3H.

 

Now the 3H things....if Jon and Karl get fire...isn't there a split in the revenue or profit...since they were also responsible for the founding of Botcon? So is Hallit the main guy of the 3....or was he a president of the company or something which give him the right to fire those two? How did 3H involve with Hard Hero???

[Macro-con]

Hah, Hasbro isn't on board 5 minutes and the ships already sinking!!! WHAT A SURPRISE!!!! NOT!

 

Glen Halibut (Hallit) seems like an egotistical jerk anyways. If you ask me BotCon is way overrated. Now with the air fares the way they are its hardly worth shelling out an extra $300-$1000 just to get there. And Hasbro shows up for one day at what is basically their own show? What kinda crap is that. Yoinks!

 

Top it off with this years' exclusives sucking hard!!! And those poor people at the dinner. Man they got the shaft! The work of Mr. Halibut and Ms. Hasbro? Something smells fishy to me. Double Yoinks!

 

BOYCOT BOTCON - START YOUR OWN TF FESTIVAL!

 

If this story is true I say we all respond by not going to BotCon any more! Let Hasbro know that we won't go. Take it all back!!! Its time we all organize our own local Transformers mini-fests and take the power away from these people who only seem bent on exploiting the fans and each other! Who gives a fly about expensive lamer exclusives and smelling some voice actors BO.

 

VIVA LA TF FANS!

 

M-C

[BaCon]

OH NO! Say it isn't so! I personally I really hope its not true. We've come so far in the last year. This would be a serious set back for the whole TF community. Someone say its not true!!!

 

Sadly, it may be the very success of BotCon that's at the root of this event. There always seems to be a power struggle when things like this do well. Few people have enough fortitude to keep the peace in the midst of a successful endeavor. Wave some money around, watch the ego's inflate and pretty soon you got an explosive mixture that threatens the very premise the venture was founded on.

 

It is ironic how that dream come true can become your worst nightmare. Life can suck like that I guess. %)

 

jACK!

[ViceGripX]

[comments deleted by author]

[jmillustrator]

Hey guys. Remy to answer your earlier questions. I'm not sure about the revenue splitting. As far as I know, Hallit was the top guy and the Hartman's were below him. Though the Hartman's basicallly ran all the events and Hallit acting like the mouth-piece to the dealers and, last year, Hasbro. Hard Hero and 3H signed a contract that guaranteed a certain number of statues would be produced for the 2002 event. All 3H had to do was take the orders, pay the fee and Hard Hero would do the rest. Well Hallit kept making changes to the statue, well past the deadline and then blamed Hard Hero for no statue being at Botcon. 3H then used this excuse to not pay for the statues. So they sat in a wharehouse while Hard Hero was fitting that bill. I guess they finally got tired of waiting and terminated the contract and decided to sell the remaining statues themselves. Basically it was a big mess that could have been avoided, but stupidity and finger pointing caused us, the paying customer, to lose out. I just feel bad for those that payed and won't get their statue from 3H. I just hope they at least get their money back. Sorry for the rant folks.

Joe

[Reminator]

:evil: :evil: Thanks Joe.....yeah that definitely answer to the Statue mess....how come no one provides the news regarding this statue mess up? Oh well....the truth had been reveal now...thanks to Joe.

 

- Just a Rémy thought -

Now....how did Joe obtained all these information...and who is his privacy source??? Is Joe.....some sort VIP??? Is Joe' source an insider to 3H or Hard Hero...or maybe Hasbro??? Hm.....interesting.......will Joe answer these questions......only time will tell.

[Sidecutter]

I take most of this with a grain of salt. No. Make that a very large bucket of the stuff. After all, how can the last person to join a group POSSIBLY fire the creators of the business? That would be an odd situation indeed. And were that the case, I don;t doubt that the Hartmans, who created BotCon itself, could legally take the very convention *with* them, nor do I doubt that they would continue it, and continue it;s excellence.

 

At any rate, I thought it prudent to send off an inquiry to 3H. To which I got a reply within an hour and a half. Below is the text of the reply. An inquiry also was sent directly to the Hartman's to hear what Jon and Karl have to say on the matter themseklves.

 

"The rumors are completely untrue­ Jon and Karl were NOT fired (how do you fire founders anyway?). It is true there has been some restructuring, but Jon and Karl will always be involved in EVERY BotCon event. I went to AmericanDream's site and it saddens me how quick everyone is to inflate a rumour. It also saddens me to see everyone's low opinion of myself when I kill myself with Jon and Karl every year making BotCon the way it is for the fans.

 

Once I get this Unicron mess sorted, I'll giev out some more info, OK?

 

 

Glen"

[SKYWARP]

It will be a sad day if all this is true. After all that 3H did early on. I look at it this way when some fall others shall rise to take their place. Who knows maybe the 2H's will go back to doing things on their own without the 3rd one. 2's company 3's a crowd.

[SKYWARP]

It will be a sad day if all this is true. After all that 3H did early on. I look at it this way when some fall others shall rise to take their place. Who knows maybe the 2H's will go back to doing things on their own without the 3rd one. 2's company 3's a crowd.

[BaCon]

Man, thanks for the info. That's truly disheartening to hear. This kind of behavior seems so out of place for 3H.

 

In their defense, making something like that Unicron statue has got to be a nightmare. I also find it hard to believe that anyone at 3H is raking the $'s from this endeavor. In the end, we have a Unicron statue. Its not pretty for some people right now, but let's have some appreciation for the accomplishment. The people involved need to be remembered for the great things they've done. Its so easy to rip people apart for one bad thing. So try to give them some credit for being dedicated enough to actually do it.

 

Besides, can you imagine trying to satisfy all of *us* Transformers fans?

 

As for how could the last guy to join the group take over? Seniority doesn't always buy you much in a company. It can be a detriment actually. It very well could be the case that a late comer makes a large investment in the company to assist the founders in getting out of debt or to provide funding to take on more ambitious endeavors. Not that I am saying this is the case with 3H.

[OFP2002]

Dear Glen,

 

In an email response you stated "The rumors are completely untrue­ Jon and Karl were NOT fired (how do you fire founders anyway?).

 

Well, let's see. Founders of companys and other projects are fired all the time by people who are brought in by the owners and then are shown the door when that person thinks they can do things better. My guess is that when you set up the new 3H Productions you did not bring Jon and Karl in on that venture. You then went to Hasbro and got the exclusive rights to do the Official Transformers Convention as well as the Fan Club. These rights would have been awarded to the newly created 3H Productions, now an official license holder for Transformers, and a company owned solely by you. Once you had the exclusive rights you no longer would need the Hartman's. Why you still have the Botcon name is beyond me though since that was around before you. Anyways, this is my guess as to how things happened. Honestly, it first occured to me when I heard you speak at the Dinner on friday night about 3H Productions getting exclusive rights and that you had named yourself King of the Fan Club. Well, guess what Glen, I for one don't want you as King. If you screwed up this whole Unicron thing I can only imagine how you will screw up things with the Fan Club. Furthermore, if my rumor is true and you did force out the Hartman's from the show THEY created, then I hope you reap what you sow 10 fold!

[Charles Calhoun]

I just feel bad for those that payed and won't get their statue from 3H.

 

Of course, as I'm sure you know, there are no such people. There is not a single solitary person who has paid for a Unicron statue and has a chance of not receiving it. When your inside source was passing along all that secret insider info (with no namable source to back it up, naturally), I would have expected him/her to mention this as well.

 

To clarify the Unicron situation in a nutshell:

Hard Hero were unable to deliver the statues on time so that they could be distributed at Botcon as was originally planned. I don't know who to blame about this, and I don't have enough information to speculate. Neither, I'm sure, does anybody else here.

When it became clear that this would be the case, 3H contacted everyone who had already paid and informed them of the situation. Every customer was given the option to stick it out and pay for shipping, or to cancel the order.

3H is not "gouging" anyone on the shipping. The Unicron statue is large, expensive, and fragile. Shipping large, expensive, and fragile things costs money. Because Hard Hero aren't having to ship the statues on to 3H before they're shipped to consumers, and because they're the producers of the things, their overall cost is a fair bit lower than 3H's. That's not gouging, no matter how you look at it.

 

We've already gotten confirmation from Glen Hallit that this rumor is a load of hooie, and I'm sure we'll get confirmation on that from the Hartmans just as soon as they have a chance. Until I see a compelling reason to distrust him, I'm willing to believe Glen Hallit. He and the Hartmans have worked their fingers to the bone to bring us great events and exclusives year after year, and to see people whipped into a feeding frenzy against them over one tiny, unfounded rumor deeply saddens me. There are a lot of jealous people in this fandom with ridiculous grusges against Glen and the Hartmans. I think that this "rumor" is based entirely on petty ill-will toward people who work way too hard for us, and that it has no basis in actual fact. PLEASE, don't go sullying any 3H member's name until you've got some sort of justifiable reason for doing so.

[Reminator]

  "The rumors are completely untrue­ Jon and Karl were NOT fired (how do you fire founders anyway?). It is true there has been some restructuring, but Jon and Karl will always be involved in EVERY BotCon event. I went to AmericanDream's site and it saddens me how quick everyone is to inflate a rumour. It also saddens me to see everyone's low opinion of myself when I kill myself with Jon and Karl every year making BotCon the way it is for the fans.

 

Once I get this Unicron mess sorted, I'll giev out some more info, OK?

 

 

Glen"

 

:evil: :evil: Thanks Sidecutter.....that should clear up the rumor and confusion.

 

Okay guys.....before things begin to get out of hand......just remember...it's only a RUMOR.....we should not take them seriouly until it is proven to be true. Some rumors are true...and some are not. So let's us cool down...regarding the three guys (Jon, Karl, and Glen).

[BaCon]

I can confirm that email from Glen. I got a similar reply from him. Please give these guys a chance to explain. Try not to rush to conclusions. Life is good! We all love Transformers remember? Hey how about those Giants! Woo hoo!!!!

 

 

Jacker

[tjmd]

Dear Glen,  

 

In an email response you stated "The rumors are completely untrue­ Jon and Karl were NOT fired (how do you fire founders anyway?).  

 

Well, let's see. Founders of companys and other projects are fired all the time by people who are brought in by the owners and then are shown the door when that person thinks they can do things better. My guess is that when you set up the new 3H Productions you did not bring Jon and Karl in on that venture. You then went to Hasbro and got the exclusive rights to do the Official Transformers Convention as well as the Fan Club. These rights would have been awarded to the newly created 3H Productions, now an official license holder for Transformers, and a company owned solely by you. Once you had the exclusive rights you no longer would need the Hartman's. Why you still have the Botcon name is beyond me though since that was around before you.  Anyways, this is my guess as to how things happened. Honestly, it first occured to me when I heard you speak at the Dinner on friday night about 3H Productions getting exclusive rights and that you had named yourself King of the Fan Club. Well, guess what Glen, I for one don't want you as King. If you screwed up this whole Unicron thing I can only imagine how you will screw up things with the Fan Club. Furthermore, if my rumor is true and you did force out the Hartman's from the show THEY created, then I hope you reap what you sow 10 fold!

 

What is your problem? What is your beef with Glenn? 3H have already stated what the reasons were for everything that went wrong. IT WAS BEYOND *THEIR* CONTROL! Why people keep beating a dead horse is beyond me.

[J-Gon]

this is an entertaining read on a subject WAY over my head but nonetheless, welcome to our little slice of heaven guys!

 

 

*****Smokescreen scratches his head and thinks to himself " wow, look at all the newbees coming out of the woodwork" ******