Avengers Cartoon Cancelled?

[CLAM]

How can a self-contained episode be just as good when you can only get 22 minutes worth of story? There is absolutely no room for drama, mystery, character development, or any kind of depth whatsoever.

 

 

Self contained episodes are stupid and formulaic. I have recently been reading all of the Marvel Universe since the silver age, which started with Fantastic Four #1. I have read almost 3 years into it and pretty much every issue is self-contained.. and you know what, it's BORING because there is nothing to it.

 

Here is what happens and what we can expect. A villain comes along to do something bad for a simple reason. The hero/heroes meet them and are briefly beaten. The heroes think of a clever way to defeat the villain. the end. every frickin time! lol

 

so...not a fan of Batman TAS I take it?

 

actually, I LOVE that show and it still hols up as one of the greatest cartoons of all time.. not just superhero cartoons.. cartoons period. So you are right, it is possible to make a great show full of stand-alone episodes.

 

but I think Batman TAS was the exception to the rule and I don't expect any show to be able to duplicate that kind of magic again... especially not the team behind Ultimate Spiderman

[Strap_4]

UGH. Avengers is seriously HANDS DOWN THE BEST MARVEL CARTOON EVER. the very notion that its getting cancelled makes me sick. And what's worse is they want to tie the NEXT Avengers cartoon in with Ultimate Spider-man? that show SUCKS, ESPECIALLY compared to Avengers.

 

 

They should just bring back Wolverine and the X-Men and Spectacular Spider-man and keep Avengers rolling and keep it as that. Everyone freaking wins and they'd have the 3 best Marvel cartoons ever going. Yea, I grew up in the 90's and LOVED Spidey's show back then, but seriously, the Avengers is SO MUCH BETTER.

 

This Loeb fellow needs to loose his job if he has any power to pull the plug on Avengers. He sounds like a damn moron.

[jahue]

The ironic thing is I have been meaning to start a topic here asking if you guys were surprised that a toy line has not been announced for this show considering its popularity, and to gauge if you would support an animated line.

 

I totally would. I loved the X-men evolution line and spectacular spiderman started to turn out some good figures too

 

 

[Superpowers1980]

Self contained episodes are just as good and doesn't make a show dumber than those with story arcs.

 

 

How can a self-contained episode be just as good when you can only get 22 minutes worth of story? There is absolutely no room for drama, mystery, character development, or any kind of depth whatsoever.

 

 

Self contained episodes are stupid and formulaic. I have recently been reading all of the Marvel Universe since the silver age, which started with Fantastic Four #1. I have read almost 3 years into it and pretty much every issue is self-contained.. and you know what, it's BORING because there is nothing to it.

 

Here is what happens and what we can expect. A villain comes along to do something bad for a simple reason. The hero/heroes meet them and are briefly beaten. The heroes think of a clever way to defeat the villain. the end. every frickin time! lol

Well I really don't know how to respond, if you feel that way then it isn't a bad thing but I do enjoy some self-contained episodes. If a cartoon is well written then you can get a world of info from 22 mins, that is the genius of it. I was recently re-watching Silverhawks and they had some pretty decent episodes within 22 mins, aside from the culture of cartoons at the time they did manage to do a decent job on some of those episodes.

 

Feats mentioned Batman TAS, same goes for Superman too, they did a great job with single stories. You don't need a story arc, you can build a character with multiple stories, Lex Luthor can be defined within multiple self contained stories just as he could with a story arc.

 

Also, if you invested three years into a hobby then I would not claim they are boring........why would one subject themselves to 3 years of tedious, boring reading for no reason other than a choice to entertain themselves, I am sure there were other options????????

[CLAM]

Also, if you invested three years into a hobby then I would not claim they are boring........why would one subject themselves to 3 years of tedious, boring reading for no reason other than a choice to entertain themselves, I am sure there were other options????????

 

 

No, I didn't mean that I have been doing it for 3 years. I meant that I am 3 years worth of comics into it. As in I have read the first 3 years worth of Marvel comics, starting with FF#1... (and actually I should correct that, now that I look at my list, I am only 2 years into it).

 

And it's not really boring.. I guess I was exaggerating. Although, some of the issues ARE pretty silly, especially the ones that take place in a comic like Tales To Astonish, which usually feature an Ant-man story and some random non-superhero stories. The Ant-man stuff isn't as good as say an issue of Amazing Spidey because they are only 12 pages long sometimes, and they do follow that stupid formula everytime. But I love how Pym treats the Wasp! Hilarious!

 

At this point in my reading (I am reading them as if I was there back in the 60's when these issues came out and following that order), there are these titles: Tales to Astonish (antman), Amazing Spiderman, FF, trange Tales (Human torch.dr.strange), Tales of Suspense(ironman), Journey into Mystery (thor), Avengers, Xmen, and Daredevil (there was Hulk but it was actually canned for a short time, He will be returning soon though in Tales along with Antman. And then pretty soon after that, Captain America will be joining Tales of Suspense, and Namor will be joining Tales to Astonish)

 

 

Anyhow, even though there are some bad issues.. it is my full intention to read the entire Marvel Universe (at least the flagship stuff).. so I have to drudge through the bad along with the good.

 

 

and I guess I shouldn't have said that self-contained episodes are stupid or boring, because obviously it has been pointed out that isn't always the case. I love many many cartoons that feature mostly self-contained episodes. I suppose I was making a generalized statement out of anger of this revelation and my fear that Avengers will become dumbed down like the Ultimate Spiderman show.

 

So yeah, a self-contained episode can be good, even great.. but I feel that shows with continuing arcs have the capacity to be far better

[Eric]

Like almost everything else out there, I think the real reason why the Avengers show is being cancelled because of copyright. I know it sounds stupid, but I think this is the reason why. In the article, it is said that the show is being cancelled bcause there is another Avengers that has been in the works since way before this Avengers cartoon has been made. Marvel also wants the Avengers make an appearance in the Spiderman cartoon. This most likely wouldn't be possible if the current Avengers cartoon is on. Remember how Robin couldn't be shown in the Justice League cartoons and how Batman couldn't be on Teen Titans? There was also the whole Batembargo placed on the Bruce Timm JL shows because at the time, The Batman was on.

 

I think the agreement to have an ultimate Spiderman and an Avengers was in the works a long time ago, hence why they didn't go with the other route by adding Spiderman in the current Avengers universe.

 

I am sure they can pull some sort of contract to have all characters to appear in an episode, but it would be a copyright political mess like the Spiderman TAS episode.

 

I think this is Marvels way of trying to make a quick buck by having a short lived TAS series where multiple superheroes can coexist without fears of violating copyright. It is also a time when a Spiderman and an avengers movie is coming out soon.

 

Could be. That's an interesting point.

 

But I still think it's just Loeb being an arrogant jerk who wants to pull the plug because he didn't create it.

 

And I agree with those who say Ultimate Spider-Man sucks. It seems like a pretty terrible cartoon to me.

[revsears]

Like almost everything else out there, I think the real reason why the Avengers show is being cancelled because of copyright. I know it sounds stupid, but I think this is the reason why. In the article, it is said that the show is being cancelled bcause there is another Avengers that has been in the works since way before this Avengers cartoon has been made. Marvel also wants the Avengers make an appearance in the Spiderman cartoon. This most likely wouldn't be possible if the current Avengers cartoon is on. Remember how Robin couldn't be shown in the Justice League cartoons and how Batman couldn't be on Teen Titans? There was also the whole Batembargo placed on the Bruce Timm JL shows because at the time, The Batman was on.

 

I think the agreement to have an ultimate Spiderman and an Avengers was in the works a long time ago, hence why they didn't go with the other route by adding Spiderman in the current Avengers universe.

 

I am sure they can pull some sort of contract to have all characters to appear in an episode, but it would be a copyright political mess like the Spiderman TAS episode.

 

I think this is Marvels way of trying to make a quick buck by having a short lived TAS series where multiple superheroes can coexist without fears of violating copyright. It is also a time when a Spiderman and an avengers movie is coming out soon.

 

That makes little sense. Sorry to call you on this but the toon , the channel, and even all of Marvel Comics are owned by Disney. You are not going to file a copyright suit against yourself.

 

The spiderman TAS episode doesn't correlate, the rights back then were a miss.

 

The DC stuff? those were mandates to prevent brand confusion (which didn't really make sense imo) but those were not copyright issues.

[JayC]

Come on people, your getting upset by some off-hand quotes and speculation being made by some random website. Maybe you should wait something to actually be canceled before getting upset about it, and if they do decide to cancel and do something different then I am sure it would be because ratings. That being said if anything were to be canceled from the rumors I've heard it would be Ultimate Spider-Man not Avengers.

[goosey]

If Loeb is so big on "one and done" stories, then why doesn't he just order that season three go that route rather a longer storyline? I don't think it's reason to tank a popular show. I think there's more to it - whether it's Disney pulling the strings, or Quesada/Bendis, etc., you just know that someone is salivating over the idea of a Samuel L Jackson Nick Fury, Hawkeye in that awful new costume, etc. Marvel rarely gets things like this right, so it's too bad that when they do, they want to squander the opportunity.

[Hordak Rules]

Come on people, your getting upset by some off-hand quotes and speculation being made by some random website. Maybe you should wait something to actually be canceled before getting upset about it, and if they do decide to cancel and do something different then I am sure it would be because ratings. That being said if anything were to be canceled from the rumors I've heard it would be Ultimate Spider-Man not Avengers.

 

Now, now. It's my god-given right to jump to conclusions at unsubstantiated rumors and heresay and to post about them on the internet. hehe

 

I can't bring myself to watch that Spider-Man cartoon, so I hope you're right on that. It would help a lot towards Avengers if they look at Spider-man and realize "Oh crap, the one we want to work is failing miserably. Maybe there's something more to this Avengers cartoon."

[Doom Saber]

Like almost everything else out there, I think the real reason why the Avengers show is being cancelled because of copyright. I know it sounds stupid, but I think this is the reason why. In the article, it is said that the show is being cancelled bcause there is another Avengers that has been in the works since way before this Avengers cartoon has been made. Marvel also wants the Avengers make an appearance in the Spiderman cartoon. This most likely wouldn't be possible if the current Avengers cartoon is on. Remember how Robin couldn't be shown in the Justice League cartoons and how Batman couldn't be on Teen Titans? There was also the whole Batembargo placed on the Bruce Timm JL shows because at the time, The Batman was on.

 

I think the agreement to have an ultimate Spiderman and an Avengers was in the works a long time ago, hence why they didn't go with the other route by adding Spiderman in the current Avengers universe.

 

I am sure they can pull some sort of contract to have all characters to appear in an episode, but it would be a copyright political mess like the Spiderman TAS episode.

 

I think this is Marvels way of trying to make a quick buck by having a short lived TAS series where multiple superheroes can coexist without fears of violating copyright. It is also a time when a Spiderman and an avengers movie is coming out soon.

 

That makes little sense. Sorry to call you on this but the toon , the channel, and even all of Marvel Comics are owned by Disney. You are not going to file a copyright suit against yourself.

 

The spiderman TAS episode doesn't correlate, the rights back then were a miss.

 

The DC stuff? those were mandates to prevent brand confusion (which didn't really make sense imo) but those were not copyright issues.

 

While Disney does own Marvel, they do have contracts with other companies who makes the show. Case in point are the Marvel movies. One of the reasons why it took Marvel so long to make the movie was because they were waiting for the hulk rights to expire so they can own it. Another example is the whole X-men copyright fiasco that happened years ago. Fox tried to sue Marvel because they claimed that the Mutant X tv show is a copy of X-men despite that both properties are owned by Marvel; marvel sold the X-men movie rights to Fox. As for the brand confusion with Dc, that was part of the problem. The other problem was because of contracts. I am sure those were placed by Wb for not only brand confusion, but also to give their contractors exclusive agreement over something.

[revsears]

Like almost everything else out there, I think the real reason why the Avengers show is being cancelled because of copyright. I know it sounds stupid, but I think this is the reason why. In the article, it is said that the show is being cancelled bcause there is another Avengers that has been in the works since way before this Avengers cartoon has been made. Marvel also wants the Avengers make an appearance in the Spiderman cartoon. This most likely wouldn't be possible if the current Avengers cartoon is on. Remember how Robin couldn't be shown in the Justice League cartoons and how Batman couldn't be on Teen Titans? There was also the whole Batembargo placed on the Bruce Timm JL shows because at the time, The Batman was on.

 

I think the agreement to have an ultimate Spiderman and an Avengers was in the works a long time ago, hence why they didn't go with the other route by adding Spiderman in the current Avengers universe.

 

I am sure they can pull some sort of contract to have all characters to appear in an episode, but it would be a copyright political mess like the Spiderman TAS episode.

 

I think this is Marvels way of trying to make a quick buck by having a short lived TAS series where multiple superheroes can coexist without fears of violating copyright. It is also a time when a Spiderman and an avengers movie is coming out soon.

 

That makes little sense. Sorry to call you on this but the toon , the channel, and even all of Marvel Comics are owned by Disney. You are not going to file a copyright suit against yourself.

 

The spiderman TAS episode doesn't correlate, the rights back then were a miss.

 

The DC stuff? those were mandates to prevent brand confusion (which didn't really make sense imo) but those were not copyright issues.

 

While Disney does own Marvel, they do have contracts with other companies who makes the show. Case in point are the Marvel movies. One of the reasons why it took Marvel so long to make the movie was because they were waiting for the hulk rights to expire so they can own it. Another example is the whole X-men copyright fiasco that happened years ago. Fox tried to sue Marvel because they claimed that the Mutant X tv show is a copy of X-men despite that both properties are owned by Marvel; marvel sold the X-men movie rights to Fox. As for the brand confusion with Dc, that was part of the problem. The other problem was because of contracts. I am sure those were placed by Wb for not only brand confusion, but also to give their contractors exclusive agreement over something.

 

I'd buy happy to admit I am wrong if you can back up proof, but I am not seeing the logic here. The issue with Mutant X was that Marvel had licensed x-men to fox, and then this very similar idea to another studio. Marvel/Disney have not issued the all cartoon rights to one company outside of themselves, but are only doing individual shows (as far as I can tell) and there is no reason to think other wise, Marvel has learned, and more importantly Disney has better business sense. If someone was challenging their copyright etc, their would be a suit and we would know it (most likely, I can't imagine Disney lawyer's bowing down quietly) and also they would have said so. They stated this was a possibility, and that it was based on RATINGS. So for you to be right, the original report would have to contain a lie, and either Disney would have to be gratosquely stupid about who the hire to actually produce/draw the toon or, there is some secret law suit going on. It just doesn't make sense.

[yojoebro82]

And it's not really boring.. I guess I was exaggerating. Although, some of the issues ARE pretty silly, especially the ones that take place in a comic like Tales To Astonish, which usually feature an Ant-man story and some random non-superhero stories. The Ant-man stuff isn't as good as say an issue of Amazing Spidey because they are only 12 pages long sometimes, and they do follow that stupid formula everytime. But I love how Pym treats the Wasp! Hilarious!

 

At this point in my reading (I am reading them as if I was there back in the 60's when these issues came out and following that order), there are these titles: Tales to Astonish (antman), Amazing Spiderman, FF, trange Tales (Human torch.dr.strange), Tales of Suspense(ironman), Journey into Mystery (thor), Avengers, Xmen, and Daredevil (there was Hulk but it was actually canned for a short time, He will be returning soon though in Tales along with Antman. And then pretty soon after that, Captain America will be joining Tales of Suspense, and Namor will be joining Tales to Astonish)

 

So yeah, a self-contained episode can be good, even great.. but I feel that shows with continuing arcs have the capacity to be far better

 

Hey, I'm reading some early Marvel stuff too. Just got done with the first 6 Hulk issues. Yeah some of that stuff is pretty silly...I think I'm going to jump into Amazing Spidey next. I have the first 4 volumes of his TPBs that have never been read. Also looking for where I can find some reprints of Incredible Hulk 180 and 181. Still looking for something to top the first Claremont X-Men issues though-some of the best superhero comics ever written!

 

I shouldn't have used "dumbed down" in describing self contained episodes. Obviously in the history of all the TV shows that do self contained stories, there have been a lot of good ones.

[Belmont13]

Yeah, Marvel's early works can be awkward to say the least. I was reading a digital issue of X-men#1 and the dialogue left a lot to be desired for example they're doing a training section and Cyclops fires at Beast and Iceman and Iceman says "turn that cotton picking visor off" I don't know what he meant but I found it offensive. Plus when Jean Grey first arrives everyone start gawking like it's the first time they saw a woman, vultures. lol

[Strap_4]

I... dont think "Cotton Picking" was, like.... a slur right then...

 

 

wait... is "wait just a cotton picking minute" a racist thing? or just an old person thing?

[darksword]

So is the show cancelled? So far I've seen the first four episodes of season 2.

[Belmont13]

I... dont think "Cotton Picking" was, like.... a slur right then...

 

 

wait... is "wait just a cotton picking minute" a racist thing? or just an old person thing?

 

Well to be honest, I didn't know it was an old person's saying to my knowledge it's always been used as an insult to African Americans so I guess that was my mistake. I guess it all depends a person's point of view.

 

@darksword, no there has not been an official cancellation of the series it was all conjecture of where the series was headed based on statements from Jeph Loeb, hence most of us starting our rants with "hope this is not true"

[hamsterboy]

After tonight's,I hope not. I liked this version of Luke Cage better than the one on the Spider-Man cartoon. Even got a "Sweet Christmas" to boot.

[Belmont13]

I hate Jeph Loeb

 

http://therealmcast.com/27285/avengers-earths-mightiest-heroes-axed-new-show-to-take-place/

[Hordak Rules]

I know that I'll probably tune in to see what the new show is like, but it is just so aggravating that they would cancel a great show in order to replace is with a similar (and possibly mediocre) one. It was easy enough to shift Avengers EMH over to something like the movie. The show already stars Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Hawkeye and Iron Man. Falcon was just introduced and Black Widow is already in involved with the show. Just change some costumes around and presto, you've got a show starting the movie characters. It's really annoying that they'll just go and piss off an entire fan base like this.

[CLAM]

Avengers EMH was the best Marvel cartoon ever. They are morons to cancel it in favor of a new show.

 

And I already hate the new show because of Hawkeye's crappy movie costume

[spystreak]

I'm so sick of them doing crap like this

[slao]

I'm not even going to bother watching the new show....all I can do now is HOPE they release the rest of season 2 on DVD. They want ratings in favor of this new garbage? Well, I'm not tuning in, bye Jeph.

[BigBot84]

It sucks they're not renewing it for a 3rd season, but I always heard the show was planned for 52 episodes only. Either way, we got an awesome Avengers show. If Jeph Loeb is not a fan of the serial nature of the show, that sucks. Episodic style can be good, but a long arching story is much better.

[khamla]

They need to fire Loeb or whoever is responsible for this. From what i hear they want to make the new Avengers show just like the Ultimate Spider-man show which completely SUCKS!! Marvel, go watch Young Justice, this is what fans want. Heck you guys have done good work before. The 90's Spider-Man and X-Men. The Spectacular Spider-Man and this current Avengers. We want shows like that!

 

Do you guys think Marvel even listens to what the fans really want? I think what it comes down to is they want to do everything in house to save money and make more money. Which is why i really believe Spectacular Spiderman was cancelled and Ultimate was created kicking Sony out of the picture and keeping it all Disney.