wave 12!! ITS OFFICAL!!!

[JANMUGAR PRIME]

Including this wave, does anyone believe DCUC has surpassed Marvel Legends?

 

THE 10 Greatest boys' toy lines EVER are:

 

1.-TRANSFORMERS (mainly G1) @optimus@

2.-Modern STAR WARS (from the VOTC to date)

3.-G.I.JOE (all Vintage and 25th ann.)

4.-the SUPER POWERS COLLECTION

5.-DC UNIVERSE CLASSICS

6.-MARVEL LEGENDS (all)

7.-MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE (all)

8.-DC DIRECT

9.-Modern MARVEL UNIVERSE (3 3/4")

10.-M.A.S.K.

 

Jeez! i feel i'm so broke with so many good taste. @bond@

 

Why is Super Powers higher than DCUC? DCUC has a more expansive roster and is re-doing most of the Super Powers chacters. MASK is still better than Marvel Legends, Masters, and Marvel Universe.

 

Well, because it was the FIRST decent collection of DC SUPERHEROES ever made. Besides they have something that DCUC lack in a very BIG WAY.

The BATMOBILE, The SUPERMOBILE, The BATCOPTER, The LEX SOAR-7 vehicles; The TOWER OF DARKNESS & The HALL OF JUSTICE playsets.

and a lot more prototypes that never saw the day of light, just to say a few.

 

as for M.A.S.K. being better than ML, MU or MOTU...well, maybe or maybe not. Anyway MASK is in my TOP 10.

 

The only reason Super Powers got vehicles, was because it was in a smaller scale. I would want a Batmobile and Supermobile in DCUC though.

Another suggestion would be a modular playset. Maybe in place of the C&C for a change. Build an alley or something.

That was the only thing Marvel Legends was good for scenery. (lamp posts, dumpsters, trashcans, etc...)

 

I feel the only room for improvement for MASK would have been if they were the same size and articulation as GI Joe. I for one would have bought them to use with joes.

 

 

MATTEL already produced a BATMOBILE in the previous DCSH/BATMAN series, an ODD BATMOBILE if i may say so. I'd LOVE to see ANY or ALL the BATMOBILES made in a DCUC scale (Yes MATTEL you did it once, so why not again but this time RIGHT @bats@ ) The SUPERMOBILES @supes@ (Historically there are 3), ROBIN or BATGIRL'S BATCYCLE, AQUAMAN'S SEAHORSE and even a JOKERMOBILE, does any of U remember the JOKER-MOBILE or the JOKER'S VAN @joker@ ? awesome toys from our childhood.

 

As for the MASK/GIJOE subject, well i believe it's a theme of another forum. Besides I TOTALLY AGREE with your POV. Too bad HASBRO doesn't plan to fully bring back the MASK mythos in the JOE Universe, however. I was in @luv@ with GLORIA BAKER and VANESSA WARFIELD from the MASK toon.

[CLAM]

THE 10 Greatest boys' toy lines EVER are:

 

1.-TRANSFORMERS (mainly G1) @optimus@

2.-Modern STAR WARS (from the VOTC to date)

3.-G.I.JOE (all Vintage and 25th ann.)

4.-the SUPER POWERS COLLECTION

5.-DC UNIVERSE CLASSICS

6.-MARVEL LEGENDS (all)

7.-MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE (all)

8.-DC DIRECT

9.-Modern MARVEL UNIVERSE (3 3/4")

10.-M.A.S.K.

 

Jeez! i feel i'm so broke with so many good taste. @bond@

 

 

WOW! Super Powers at #4???

 

and DC Direct and Marvel Universe? neither of those belong in the top 50 toylines of all time

[CLAM]

I bought and opened every Marvel Legends figure Toybiz made, and just 8 waves into DCUC, I've already had more DCU figures break right out of the package.

 

 

same here man.

 

 

I have had plenty outright break at the joints, and some weren't even joints.. I mean like the body parts were just hanging on there.

 

My freakin 5-pack Lex Luthor's arm fell right off when I opened him! Son of a crap! I hope I can find another one quickly

[CLAM]

The DEFINITIVE List is...

 

1) DC Universe Classics

2) Marvel Minimates

3) Kenner Star Wars

4) GI Joe: A Real American Hero

5)GI Joe: 25th Anniversary

6) Justice League Unlimited

7) Playmates Star Trek line

8) Art Asylum Star Trek line

9) Masters of the Universe 2000 line

10) Star Trek Minimates

 

 

yes you are right. this is DEFINITELY not the list of best toylines ever.

 

JLU? for realz? one of the crappiest lines ever

[CLAM]

dcuc will always be # 2 to toybiz ml...in current toy linesnow that hasbro has the license its a bit more equal. to me the whole one body type for every character is not the greatest thing to me.

 

 

agreed.. and that is one of the things I hate most about DCUC.

 

Everybody is overly big and buffed out most of the time. Why is everyody as big, or bigger than Superman? Why are Robin and Zan sooooo big? It's odd

[arowdygator]

THE 10 Greatest boys' toy lines EVER are:

 

1.-TRANSFORMERS (mainly G1) @optimus@

2.-Modern STAR WARS (from the VOTC to date)

3.-G.I.JOE (all Vintage and 25th ann.)

4.-the SUPER POWERS COLLECTION

5.-DC UNIVERSE CLASSICS

6.-MARVEL LEGENDS (all)

7.-MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE (all)

8.-DC DIRECT

9.-Modern MARVEL UNIVERSE (3 3/4")

10.-M.A.S.K.

 

Jeez! i feel i'm so broke with so many good taste. @bond@

 

 

WOW! Super Powers at #4???

 

and DC Direct and Marvel Universe? neither of those belong in the top 50 toylines of all time

 

DCD does simply cuz it has the best sclupting...

[arowdygator]

dcuc will always be # 2 to toybiz ml...in current toy linesnow that hasbro has the license its a bit more equal. to me the whole one body type for every character is not the greatest thing to me.

 

 

agreed.. and that is one of the things I hate most about DCUC.

 

Everybody is overly big and buffed out most of the time. Why is everyody as big, or bigger than Superman? Why are Robin and Zan sooooo big? It's odd

 

i think now they are starting to branch out

[arowdygator]

The DEFINITIVE List is...

 

1) DC Universe Classics

2) Marvel Minimates

3) Kenner Star Wars

4) GI Joe: A Real American Hero

5)GI Joe: 25th Anniversary

6) Justice League Unlimited

7) Playmates Star Trek line

8) Art Asylum Star Trek line

9) Masters of the Universe 2000 line

10) Star Trek Minimates

 

 

yes you are right. this is DEFINITELY not the list of best toylines ever.

 

JLU? for realz? one of the crappiest lines ever

 

ya this guy just has a hard on for star trek and mini mates

[ChopperMonsterPoint]

what magazine is this and how do i get it

[spidermanskrull]

toyfare magazine and I hope some one can help out and get some high quality scans of Wave 12

[MasterJailer]

[

DCD does simply cuz it has the best sclupting...

 

I'm going to vomit. DCD makes over-priced slightly articulated statues that can't stand up. They're going down in huge flames. Their figures are rotting everywhere. They've become a cancer on poor struggling comic shops. I predict DCD is going to abandon the action figure market very soon. They just can't compete. The History line is a fiasco and they've already admitted they lost their shirt on the New Gods figures. Don't get me started on the auto-grave digging they're doing with Blammoids!! Fairly soon, DCD will be all about over-priced collectibles like those neon signs and those ridiculously priced props. "Hey, Suckers! Here's a batarang you can stick on a book shelf and gawk at. That'll be three hundred dollars!"

[MasterJailer]

 

JLU? for realz?

 

Yes. Um... For realz (Geez! I hate talking to little kids!)

 

JLU is definitely a line with bags and bags of problems but it is a line with one of the best and most comprehensive character selections of all time. No other line ever has given us almost complete line-ups of...

 

1. Satellite era JLA

2. Legion of Doom

3. JLI

4. Secret Society of Super Villains

5. Doom Patrol

6. Marvel Family

 

As well as a significant number of characters from...

 

1. Legion of Super Heroes

2. Modern JSA

3. New Gods

 

 

4. Marvel Family

[arowdygator]

[

DCD does simply cuz it has the best sclupting...

 

I'm going to vomit. DCD makes over-priced slightly articulated statues that can't stand up. They're going down in huge flames. Their figures are rotting everywhere. They've become a cancer on poor struggling comic shops. I predict DCD is going to abandon the action figure market very soon. They just can't compete. The History line is a fiasco and they've already admitted they lost their shirt on the New Gods figures. Don't get me started on the auto-grave digging they're doing with Blammoids!! Fairly soon, DCD will be all about over-priced collectibles like those neon signs and those ridiculously priced props. "Hey, Suckers! Here's a batarang you can stick on a book shelf and gawk at. That'll be three hundred dollars!"

 

one series isnt a whole lot to book off of...and they will not abandon them anytimes soon...especially with the blackest night figs coming out that i promise you are gonna be red hot.

regardless of how you feel about them, DCD does a wide variety of different lines. JLA, JSA, artist centered, comic story centered.

i dont agree with blammiods adn some of the other stuff, but again, sculpting is second to none. and your completely wrong about the figure lines. that i promise you.

[Lady Jaye]

I think I may have to revisit my list, if we're talking about toys that kids actually played with....then I'm taking off both Marvel Legends and DCUC!! Did a lil rearranging and added COPS and JP toys to the lineup!! I loved COPS, big GI JOE's with a cool theme!! Hmmm looks like there should be 2 lists, of all time, which is going to comprise mainly of 80's lines, and a modern list!!

 

#10 Star Trek (Playmates)

#9 Kenner Jurrassic Park

#8 Exo-Squad

#8 Super Powers/Toy Biz Marvel Superheroes

#7 COPS

#6 MASK

#5 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (90's)

#4 Masters of the Universe

#3 Star Wars (Modern)

#2 Transformers

#1 GI JOE A Real American Hero.

[JANMUGAR PRIME]

THE 10 Greatest boys' toy lines EVER are:

 

1.-TRANSFORMERS (mainly G1) @optimus@

2.-Modern STAR WARS (from the VOTC to date)

3.-G.I.JOE (all Vintage and 25th ann.)

4.-the SUPER POWERS COLLECTION

5.-DC UNIVERSE CLASSICS

6.-MARVEL LEGENDS (all)

7.-MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE (all)

8.-DC DIRECT

9.-Modern MARVEL UNIVERSE (3 3/4")

10.-M.A.S.K.

 

Jeez! i feel i'm so broke with so many good taste. @bond@

 

 

WOW! Super Powers at #4???

 

and DC Direct and Marvel Universe? neither of those belong in the top 50 toylines of all time

 

Well, they do now on MY LIST buddy.

and by the way I think it is a very accurate List by far, isn't it? #tank#

[HarryWildman]

Including this wave, does anyone believe DCUC has surpassed Marvel Legends?

 

Good God! DCUC left ML in the dust with the very first wave.

 

Marvel Legends were the most overrated line of broken mannequins ever palmed off on the public. Their BEST sculpts still remained compromised by the obsessive need to over-articulate these figures. You could have a Spider-Man who could scratch his own ass but he still looked like one of those wooden mannequins artists use to draw from. The over-articulation not only impaired the sculpt but it also made for some pretty flimsy figures, many of which came right out of the package broken. Yeah. DCUC has this problem too but at least their sculpts aren't under-mined by a joint at every point of the figure. The ML female figures were ALL hideous! Jesus! Remember that Scarlet Witch figure? UGH! What blind man sculpted THAT?

 

Marvel Legends were garbage. They were a nice attempt and they could've been a GREAT toy line but they constantly tripped over their own over-articulated feet! There were a couple of nice pieces in ML. The BAF Goliath, the BAF Sentinel, and the first Absorbing Man were all nice. Everything else was ugly, flimsy or both.

 

DCUC ...even with its problems... has become the GREATEST toy line of all time!

 

Yeah. Well, anyway, like I was saying, there wouldn't even be any DCUC if it weren't for Marvel Legends. DC Comics saw the great success Toybiz/Marvel was having with Legends and said, "Hey, we want some of that". It's a good thing they have some of the greatest toy designers of the modern era crafting the DCUC, because otherwise no one would be buying these overpriced, poor quality control pieces of sh!t. The DC characters are great, but even their most enthusiastic supporter would have a problem with some of the crap Mattel has pulled. DCUC almost jumped the shark with the very first wave with their promised but never released figures such as the modern Red Tornado. DCUC are often more trouble than they're worth. Anybody who would disagree with that just because this is the DC section of a website is either dumb as a bag of hammers or, most likely, deliberately trolling agitprop.

[HarryWildman]

I was tired of deliberately and knowingly buying broken (Marvel Legends) figures.

 

If you felt that way about buying Marvel Legends, it must kill you to keep buying DCUC.

[HarryWildman]

This was CAPTAIN AMERICA from MLS1 (2001)

and This was CAPTAIN AMERICA from MLFaceOff S1 (2005)

And This is CAPTAIN AMERICA from.....

MASTER CUSTOMIZER Mr. JIN SAOTOME! and he used a.... DCUC BODY Sculpt!!!!

 

the question here is...WHICH ONE LOOKS THE BEST?

 

 

The is no question that the Face Off version is the best representation of Cap so far. The ML Series 1 Cap still holds up well, and both of the Hasbro ML Caps were nice. Jin's take on a Cap made from DCUC parts is nice too, but it just seems to be lacking something without the sculpted chainmail elements of the costume.

[HarryWildman]

Why is Super Powers higher than DCUC? DCUC has a more expansive roster and is re-doing most of the Super Powers chacters.

 

Just because something is getting a re-doing doesn't mean its going to be any better There have been an awful lot of Hollywood movie remakes that are real stinkers.

 

Now in the 4H's case, the DCUC tributes to the Super Powers is certainly just as good as the originals. One of my favorite modern action figures is the DCSH Brainiac.

 

But a lot of the craftsmanship that went into the Super Powers still looks great today, IMO. Do I think the DCUC "look better"? Yeah, but only because the industry requires a more detailed product now.

 

One reason that Super Powers hasn't been "outdone" by DCUC is because of Mattel's method of producing action figures. They try their best to deliver product as cheaply as possible, especially with licensed properties. It's that same "put a new head sculpt on a body, reuse the body over and over and paint as many details as possible instead of sculpting them" model that they used for Secret Wars, JLU, etc. OTOH, every Super Powers figure had its own unique sculpt from head to toe. Even though I was only five or six at the time, I remember being disappointed that my Mattel Secret Wars figures didn't look as nice as my Kenner Super Powers.

 

DCUC has done more figures than Super Powers, but it's a matter of quantity versus quality.

[Capt.S.G.Wiseman]

I don't think I could list 10 greatest, but since this thread has been hijacked to a Top Toys list, here's my top 3, and why.

 

No. # 3 - TRANSFORMERS. The most creative and innovative toy line ever, Transformer have been in a class all their own. From G1 to Alternators to Masterpieces, AND with arguably one of the greatest roll models of our time (Optimus Prime), this story line has lit the imagination of several generations for over 25 years. Combined with totally awesome toys and excellent marketing, Transformers is by far one of the best, if not the best toy lines ever.

 

No. # 2 - STAR WARS. If you saw it in the movie, or in a spin off cartoon, or in a novel, Hasbro made it. I was never a true collector of Star Wars toys, but my cousin is and I can clearly see how awesome this toy line has been from 1977 Kenner to 2010 Hasbro. This line has never let the fans down. The only reason for ME that this is #2 is because I never understood why I could not have a Han Solo, or a Luke Skywalker, or a Darth Vader with G.I. Joe articulation. I mean seriously, #WTF# Hasbro? Why not, unless you are saving this for a rainy day.

 

No. # 1 - G.I. Joe. No other toy line is so complete as this one. Even through out the decades, old versions of vehicles and alternate series of figure are always compatible with each other. G.I. Joe is tops when it comes to play and display. Nuff said. #US1#

[HarryWildman]

Oh yeah, DCUC Wave12...

 

That Darkseid just seems so unneccessary. It looks just like the DCSH one but with a larger head sculpt. And it looks like they engineered the ab crunch into it. Which was probably left off of the DCSH one the first time because on a figure with a torso of that size the ab crunch is absolutely worthless. It might not be so bad if they didn't try to make you buy seven figures to put the Darkseid together. The old standard of five figures per wave would be fine. I was hoping those early rumors of a Darkseid BAF would be incorrect, but apparently these people who "leak" these upcoming lists onto these sites know exactly what's gonna be in 'em.

 

All of the figures look great, as usual. Iron in particular looks neat with his extra arms. But as the character selections become more and more obscure I'm beginning to doubt that these will ever make it to retail. I have had two different retail persons tell me that some stores don't like carrying DCUC because they're expensive and slow sellers (once the collectors and scalpers have gotten what they want of whatever's in stock, anyway). For me, since Mattel continue to increase the price but give you less and less value for your money, I've decided to just get one figure here and there, anyway. I still haven't gotten any of Wave 8 yet, or Wave 9. The only ones from Wave 8 I want are Hawkgirl and the Super Powers style Dr. Fate, and the only one I really want is the Hawkgirl. From Wave 9, I want the Super Powers Mantis, Black Adam, Green Arrow and Black Canary but would probably be ok with just the Super Powers Mantis. If I can find Wave 10, I'll get all of them but only because I want all of them. Well, I think I'd want Beast Boy more if he looked more like the Perez era Titans, and the all black Batman is completely unneccessary, but I'll get them anyway and maybe repaint them. From Wave 11 the only figure I really think I have to have is the Question, and then only if at a decent price. If he's scalped up because he's the "fan's choice", forget it. From Wave 12, I like the whole group, but there's none that that I really want all that much. It's just getting kind of stupid to me. It's like, "Woo hoo, here's this guy Copperhead who's as ripped as Superman for some strange reason and I don't care anything about the character and he's only about $20."

[MasterJailer]

I was tired of deliberately and knowingly buying broken (Marvel Legends) figures.

 

If you felt that way about buying Marvel Legends, it must kill you to keep buying DCUC.

 

No. It doesn't.

 

I never look at a DCUC figure on a store peg like I did with the occasional Marvel Legends and said, "Yeah. You look like a Pinocchio figure made from pipe cleaners but I'll get you anyway because you're Spider-Man" only to get it home, open it up, and discover it's a floppy, loose broken piece of garbage that doesn't stand at all. DCUC has its problems and they're plentiful. Chief among them is Mattel's unfortunate knack for aggravating its fans. Marvel Legends had fewer problems but they were more critical. They were ugly and they were flimsy. Where can you go from there?

[JANMUGAR PRIME]

How many NEW GODS are left?

 

KANTO, GRANNY GOODNESS, VIRMAN VUNDABAR, LASHINA, STOMPA, MAD HARRIET, DR. BEDLAM, HIGHFATHER, BLACK RACER, METRON, AMAZING GRACE, MISTER MIRACLE (Shilo Norman), FASTBAK, INFINITY-MAN, TAKION, OBERON, BERNADETH, GILOTINA, YUGA KHAN, and the FOREVER PEOPLE.

 

are they worth a DCUC figure?

 

 

Basically, no one of importance. With the exception of Highfather and Metron, really, and that's more of a balance thing than popularity. Don't get me wrong, I love the New Gods, but what they've been putting out is the characters that have made it to the cartoons. Specifically, the Super Powers show. If the line maintains it's popularity, I could see the rest of your choices become reality, but I figure you've got better luck at seeing DC Direct make them before Mattel at this point.

 

You know, If the statement MATTEL did about wave 12 is true, about this was the last wave with NEW GODS, then maybe we could encourage them to offer MATTY 2-packs which could include them.

 

Anyway, i still would like to see DEFINETLY at retail METRON w/his MOEBIUS chair, MISTER MIRACLE/Shilo Norman, FC DARKSEID, OBERON (Yes Oberon), YUGA KHAN and some FURIES (LASHINA or MAD HARRIET).

 

MATTEL already produced a BATMOBILE in the previous DCSH/BATMAN series, an ODD BATMOBILE if i may say so. I'd LOVE to see ANY or ALL the BATMOBILES made in a DCUC scale (Yes MATTEL you did it once, so why not again but this time RIGHT ) The SUPERMOBILES (Historically there are 3), ROBIN or BATGIRL'S BATCYCLE, AQUAMAN'S SEAHORSE and even a JOKERMOBILE, does any of U remember the JOKER-MOBILE or the JOKER'S VAN ? awesome toys from our childhood.

 

PS. MATTEL MAKE A BETTER SA SINESTRO!!!!!!!

 

I have read in another forum that WAVE 13 will include:

 

SUPERBOY/Connor Kent

CHEETAH/50-50variant

BLUE BEETLE/Jaime Reyes

CYCLOTRON/Super Powers renaissance

BLUE DEVIL

DONNA TROY

NEGATIVE MAN

 

CnC-TRIGON.

 

How about it? @fett@

[MasterJailer]

 

You know, If the statement MATTEL did about wave 12 is true, about this was the last wave with NEW GODS, then maybe we could encourage them to offer MATTY 2-packs which could include them.

 

Anyway, i still would like to see DEFINETLY at retail METRON w/his MOEBIUS chair, MISTER MIRACLE/Shilo Norman, FC DARKSEID, OBERON (Yes Oberon), YUGA KHAN and some FURIES (LASHINA or MAD HARRIET).

 

PS. MATTEL MAKE A BETTER SA SINESTRO!!!!!!!

 

 

I like the New Gods they've made but I'm "New Godded" out right now. I wouldn't mind a couple of others like Metron, Fastbak, and Lashina, but I'm not sure I'd get excited about many of the characters beyond them. I certainly wouldn't want to see them before a whole lot of other DC characters. According to that interview over at Fwoosh (A real waste of time of an interview) we came REALLY close to have gotten a Mark Moonrider instead of a Forager. Thank God they went with Forager. I understand the Four Horsemen have a huge fondness for Jack Kirby but let's give it a rest now. Now that the New Gods are largely out of the way what Kirby characters are left that they feel could demand sixteen dollars at retail? Kamandi? Omac? Ugh!

 

I am glad that they're re-doing Darkseid. That DCSH Darkseid was nice in his day but he's absolutely unacceptable now. He looks cheap and tiny next to the New Gods we've received since DCSH has gone DCUC. His head alone looks like its been "Beetlejuiced!"

 

I'm also with you on a better Sinestro, but again an apology Sinestro wouldn't rank as a higher priority than some fresher characters.

[Doom Saber]

Oh yeah, DCUC Wave12...

 

That Darkseid just seems so unneccessary. It looks just like the DCSH one but with a larger head sculpt. And it looks like they engineered the ab crunch into it. Which was probably left off of the DCSH one the first time because on a figure with a torso of that size the ab crunch is absolutely worthless. It might not be so bad if they didn't try to make you buy seven figures to put the Darkseid together. The old standard of five figures per wave would be fine. I was hoping those early rumors of a Darkseid BAF would be incorrect, but apparently these people who "leak" these upcoming lists onto these sites know exactly what's gonna be in 'em.

 

All of the figures look great, as usual. Iron in particular looks neat with his extra arms. But as the character selections become more and more obscure I'm beginning to doubt that these will ever make it to retail. I have had two different retail persons tell me that some stores don't like carrying DCUC because they're expensive and slow sellers (once the collectors and scalpers have gotten what they want of whatever's in stock, anyway). For me, since Mattel continue to increase the price but give you less and less value for your money, I've decided to just get one figure here and there, anyway. I still haven't gotten any of Wave 8 yet, or Wave 9. The only ones from Wave 8 I want are Hawkgirl and the Super Powers style Dr. Fate, and the only one I really want is the Hawkgirl. From Wave 9, I want the Super Powers Mantis, Black Adam, Green Arrow and Black Canary but would probably be ok with just the Super Powers Mantis. If I can find Wave 10, I'll get all of them but only because I want all of them. Well, I think I'd want Beast Boy more if he looked more like the Perez era Titans, and the all black Batman is completely unneccessary, but I'll get them anyway and maybe repaint them. From Wave 11 the only figure I really think I have to have is the Question, and then only if at a decent price. If he's scalped up because he's the "fan's choice", forget it. From Wave 12, I like the whole group, but there's none that that I really want all that much. It's just getting kind of stupid to me. It's like, "Woo hoo, here's this guy Copperhead who's as ripped as Superman for some strange reason and I don't care anything about the character and he's only about $20."

 

I completely agree with Darkseid being unnecessary. The figure looks as though Mattel resized the DCSH ver and added an ab crunch. I see it is unnecessary because by the time this fig is release, each toy will be around 14.99. Those who has the original, would probably not bother to purchase all the figures to complete Darkseid.

 

I think Darkseid should have been either release sooner or sold as a matty exclusive.

 

If Darkseid does not make a profit like the previous one did (if I am not wrong, the DCSH DS sold well,) would we ever see a BAF Doomsday in the close future?