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Episode VIII: The Last Jedi - talk and rumors


yojoebro82

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That's right...Episode VIII, 8, EIGHT. Because it's never too soon.

 

Might as well start it off with this:

1.) The rumored new title is either going to be Tale of the Jedi Temple OR The Order of the Dark Side. Or A New Dawn,,,

 

2.) Daisy Riddley claims Luke Skywaker is a bad @$$ in this movie.

 

3.) The media is going out of their way calling for someone...anyone to be gay in this movie. Equality!

 

Thoughts:

1.) I like "Temple" because it has the word temple in it. But "Dark Side" alludes to a darker tone which all second installments of trilogies have to have since that's the way they did it in ESB so I'm guessing it's going to be that. Unless we're being lied to about the title again.

 

2.) Sounds great!

3.) How about "no romance" gay or straight and we'll call it even? Equality!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1. Personally, I like a neutral title that's original, one that doesn't invoke any pre-existing words or phrases associated with past episodes or stories. But maybe that's just me...

 

2. I can't wait to see Luke cut loose, y'know...like I was hoping to see him do in TFA. (lol)

 

3. At first I didn't want to comment, but I like your solution, yojoe: Let's just keep things romantically neutral so nobody's offended.

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  • 2 weeks later...

That's right...Episode VIII, 8, EIGHT. Because it's never too soon.

 

Might as well start it off with this:

 

1.) The rumored new title is either going to be Tale of the Jedi Temple OR The Order of the Dark Side. Or A New Dawn,,,

 

2.) Daisy Riddley claims Luke Skywaker is a bad @$$ in this movie.

 

3.) The media is going out of their way calling for someone...anyone to be gay in this movie. Equality!

 

 

1) The second act HAS to be the darkest.

 

2) I don't want the modern definition of movie badass...I don't want him to be a special effect or a stiff, emotionless weirdo.

 

3) Where are the trans folk? Kylo seems desperate for attention...Kylie Ren?

 

 

http://nerdist.com/j-j-abrams-reveals-he-pitched-a-who-framed-roger-rabbit-sequel/

So many ideas to repackage, so little tale..er...time.

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So many ideas to repackage, so little tale..er...time.

 

 

 

I know, right?

http://nerdist.com/indiana-jones-5-steven-spielberg-harrison-ford-2019-nerdist-news/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know, I know, low blow taking a shot at Indy. Point being, if one director can push his franchise sequel, so can everyone else.

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So many ideas to repackage, so little tale..er...time.

 

 

 

I know, right?

http://nerdist.com/indiana-jones-5-steven-spielberg-harrison-ford-2019-nerdist-news/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know, I know, low blow taking a shot at Indy. Point being, if one director can push his franchise sequel, so can everyone else.

 

 

I'm glad Steven is still doing it if only because his wannabe kissass protégé isn't sitting at the helm. Its hard enough to fathom that Spielberg could do another Indy that doesn't have Nazis. Every time he dismisses TOD and then refers to LC as Raiders 2...shudder. At least the time setting alone dictates some story originality. Sigh... if only it was as easy (pronounced lazy) as stormtroopers to first order troopers

 

Hey, where's my Alias feature film franchise? Reboot?

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  • 1 year later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

 

So...has anyone else seen it?

 

I have and I'm not impressed.

 

Really?! That surprises me, to be honest...it's not a perfect Star Wars movie by any means, but I personally enjoyed it quite a bit. It defied my expectations, but in a good way, and to me that made it wildly original. It also challenged some long-held notions I had about some things that inhabit the Star Wars universe. I found it very interesting for those very reasons. I had some minor issues, but I'm sure after a few more viewings and I get a better handle on some things, I'll enjoy it even more, and those issues may be dispelled.

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Okay...I have to get some things off my chest here. Nobody seems interested in discussing The Last Jedi, but I feel as if I need to articulate some things just for my own personal processing experience. Star Wars has always played a big part in my life, so naturally I view each new installment with equal parts nostalgia and slight cynicism, and I've finally come to terms with it all after some deep exploration, meditation, and contemplating over the past week since seeing TLJ. So with spoiler alerts all around, here goes...

 

As with any fan, I went into this viewing with much anticipation, speculation, and downright giddiness. I couldn't help but have a few expectations and/or questions that have been percolating in my mind since we all saw The Force Awakens. Finally, I just had to find out who this mysterious Snoke is, what his connections to the Force and the main characters might be, what Rey's heritage really is, and just exactly how is Luke gonna come out of retirement, so to speak, to help take on The First Order and save the galaxy once again. These were the issues I thought this new film might address in spades, and maybe it would also give me some kind of explanation or concrete answers, or perhaps go into a little more detail about what's really going on...

 

This movie was nothing like I expected. There's a line Luke speaks in the film, and it perfectly describes the experience of seeing it, and many reviewers have already pointed-out this "meta-moment" in the film; he says something along the lines of, "This is not going to go the way you think!" He was saying the line to an altruistic Rey, but he was also speaking to all of the Star Wars fans in the audiences across the world, like me, that thought they already might have an inkling of how the film would progress. The Last Jedi was not what I expected, at all, but I walked away loving it and wanting to see it again...not because there was so much going on, but because there are alot of themes and notions that haven't been addressed in a Star Wars movie before, and it's rather fascinatiing, at least to me, and thus deserves afew more viewings before I can properly absorb it and process it all fully.

 

Okay, let me address the first elephant in the room: (SPOILER ALERT!!!) Kylo Ren kills Snoke about halfway through the movie. It made complete sense for his character from a story-writing perspective in two different ways...Ben Solo is still conflicted and unstable, but then added to the mix is a berating, harsh master in the form of Snoke. We see him early on bashing Kylo Ren for his failure on Starkiller Base, and then he goes on to ridicule him for his masked appearance, as if he's being silly for his perceived "Vader worship". So there's some humiliation and subsequent resentment. Also, he feels a strong bond with Rey through their contact within the Force, an ability neither one was aware of. So there's this very interesting struggle and conflict with Ben that makes you think Rey is going to try and turn him back to good, as Luke did Vader, hence Luke's warning. It's truly a great set-up, and when Kylo actually does kill Snoke unexpectedly, and he and Rey are embroiled in an epic battle with the Praetorian Guards, one might think Rey actually pulls it off. Ben even uses his grandfather's blue lightsaber at one point, and it's so awesome. But then...surprise, Kylo just wanted The First Order and title of Supreme Leader for himself, even going so far as to bid Rey to join him, so that they might rule the galaxy together, and he would teach her the true ways of The Force. Sound familiar? It was a great, classic Star Wars sequence that echoed a lot of what came before, and it was a total Sith move on Kylo's part, but...Snoke is now dead, and we never learn who he is, how he came into power...none of the backstory we were all expecting. I was so disappointed. I was so intrigued by this new Dark Side user, even though now it seems he drew his power from both sides of the Force, which contradicts the Jedi definition of balance and how to achieve it. Turns out, at least according to what I've gleaned from this film, is that the Dark and Light sides of the Force are equally important and necessary to truly embrace its purest form, that neither side is truly right or wrong. That was a very fascinating revelation for me, and it turned all of my notions about The Force on their proverbial ears, as it were. That's why I found this movie so fascinating, and it just begs to be seen multiple times.

 

(SPOILER ALERT 2!!!) Now there are some new theories already circulating online that Snoke isn't truly dead, that he only appeared in his Force-projected astral form, as Luke does at the end of the film. Perhaps he anticipated Kylo Ren's eventual betrayal, and reviewers have pointed-out that he does look a little healthier in this movie than his hologram-self implied in TFA. I told my brother as we sat watching, "He's not really dead..." And about that time we see his lifeless torso lying on the throne room floor, eyes closed and his tongue hanging-out, and my brother says, "No, he's dead." (lol) I just feel that Snoke seems to be extremely powerful in the Force, and I have my own personal theory: there was no way he could come into power with the Force out of balance during the "Dark Times", as Obi-Wan referred to. There's even been some speculation that Snoke was actually the first Jedi, that he's been alive for "a thousand generations" with the rise of Force-users, the Jedi, and the Sith. They say this because there's an ancient mosaic on the floor of one of the caves of Ach-To, and the figure on it vaguely resembles Snoke, with both a light and dark side, almost like a ying-yang symbol. So to me Snoke might possibly be the very first Jedi, or at least the first Force-user, and he's so powerful that he's been alive and present in the galaxy for so long, but he has perhaps been weakened by the imbalance in the Force that had prevailed for much of the saga. It makes complete sense to me. It's my personal favorite theory, and I still think we haven't seen the last of Snoke...if Luke could project his astral form like he did, then Snoke quite easily should have been able to do so as well. Besides, I just can't fathom such a powerful being so easily blind-sided by a character as unstable and questionable as Kylo Ren. But, if he is truly dead, and it was just a brilliant move by Kylo to become the next super villain, I'm okay with it. Snoke served his purpose, to goad and twist his young pupil, only to be struck down in a new power struggle. How many times was Vader tempted to do the same thing? It just makes complete sense to me now, even though I did want to see Snoke fleshed-out a little more, no pun intended. He fascinates me in the same way Palpatine does...he's just so evil and deplorable that I want to know more about him...

 

The other elephant in the room that needs to be addressed, so to speak, is how Luke is portrayed in this film, and how it shatters any preconceived notions any of us had about what his role was going to be in the new trilogy. Like many others, I wanted to see the equivalent of 2008's Rambo of the Star Wars universe...Luke was going to return from obscurity, display his awesome Jedi Master powers and save everyone one more time, and it was going to be epic. It doesn't happen. It didn't happen in TFA, and it doesn't happen in TLJ, either. At first I was very disappointed by it. Don't get me wrong...there's this great sequence at the end where everyone, including the audience, thinks (SPOILER ALERT 3!!!) Luke has indeed returned to help save the resistance, which by the way, is on its very last legs, literally in this film, from The First Order. But then when we think Kylo Ren has killed him, it turns out Luke was projecting his astral form all the way across the galaxy from Ach-To. But then (SPOILER ALERT 4!!!) he's so spent from this ability that he lies down on the cliff overlooking the setting twin-suns of Ach-To and becomes one with the Force, just as Obi-Wan and Yoda did. It was a beautiful end for such a great character, but I was quite depressed and upset at first...first Han, and now Luke?! It's as if they're literally killing-off my childhood heroes to make way for the younger and "better" generation of Star Wars heroes. It truly made me sad and somewhat depressed. I won't lie. Like their time is now over (and therefore my time is over, too), so let's make way for the next generation. (lol) I didn't get to see my beloved Star Wars characters on-screen together for one last adventure, and I had to watch three of them die (if you count Kenny Baker), two on-screen, and two in real life, sadly. I have to admit that it's just been downright depressing, and I'm sure other fans my age feel the same way. But I've pondered it, stewed on it, and turned it over and over in my mind, trying to come to terms with it all, and it dawned on me just today: Luke was never coming back. He was old, tired, disenchanted, disillusioned, and simply broken. Rey thought that she could just search him out and convince him to come back and save the Resistance and, ultimately, the galaxy. There was a resounding "no" in Luke's actions, everything he said...there was just no way anyone was going to convince him to return to the fight, so to speak, and that was a very fascinating Luke to watch. You would see cracks every now and then, or evidence that he still cared a tiny bit. But you discover right away this is not the same Luke we all saw smiling and hugging his friends victoriously at the end of ROTJ. He even goes so far as to cut himself off from the Force itself. It was simply a fascinating look into where Luke was now spiritually and emotionally after all these years. And once I came to terms with that, that we were never meant to see Luke return to his former glory and just single-handedly take on The First Order and win, thereby saving the galaxy, then I was okay with it. It was alot easier to understand and accept. We're still treated with a "what-could-have-been" sequence when we see Luke show up at the end, or what you think is really Luke, stalling The First Order long enough for what was left of the decimated Resistance to escape quite literally, out the back door, with a little help from Rey and the Millennium Falcon. (By the way...what finally convinced Luke to do something? (SPOILER ALERT 4!!) He finds Artoo on the Falcon, who shows him the hologram of Leia begging for General Kenobi's help against the Empire. It was a very unexpected and sweet callback to the old films that didn't clunk you over the head blatantly...it was the right touch at just the right time.)

Luke still finds enough hope left in himself to help the resistance, save his sister, and give it back to the galaxy...perhaps being that spark that would light the fire that burns The First Order down, to paraphrase Poe Dameron. At last, at peace with his past, he was able to become one with the Force and let go of the angst, regret, and sense of failure that had tormented him for so long...

 

So there it is, my summation of The Last Jedi. Since I've been able to untangle my expectations from it and see it from "a certain point of view", I absolutely love it more now than I did walking out of the theater, without the disappointment and grief, of course. (lol) It just leaves the next film wide-open...there's nobody frozen in carbonite, no impending war, other than the New Rebellion they make reference to at the end, no real cliffhangers to make you want to see the next one just to see how things are resolved. It didn't feel like the second film of a trilogy...it felt more like the third act, and I guess that's another reason I find it very interesting. It really defies all expectations, and to me, that's a good thing. As long as it doesn't veer-off into ridiculousness, unpredictability (that makes sense) is much more interesting to me than the predictable lightsaber or space battles we've all seen ad-nauseum...

 

Tell me what you guys think. Agree? Disagree? Maybe you guys have an angle or two I missed, or different theories you'd like to speculate with and/or share. I look forward to reading your thoughts...

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I just saw this movie today and I'm still processing it. I don't know if I liked it or not. There were definitely cool parts, but overall, as a complete Star Wars movie...what can I say?

 

SPOILERS GALORE!!

 

 

I think the overall story was OK but could have been streamlined. The stuff with Rey and Kylo and Luke, the key plotlines, were fine and overall enjoyable. The B plot line, with the rebels being chased down could have been done better. The whole power struggle within the rebellion was kind of herky-jerky, IMO. And the side story with Finn and Rose didn't add much to the movie at all. I'll just break it down by character.

 

Kylo and Rey were great. I liked the communicating through the Force element to their story. It was something hinted at in the OT but they really dove into it here and it really built up the relationship and depth of both of these characters. Kylo is more a sympathetic villain than in TFA, which is what you want to see. Them teaming up against the Royal Guards was one of the highlights of the film. Great build up to a great battle. I had to do a bathroom break in the second act and I was not going to go during a Kylo/Rey scene.

 

Luke. Oh, Luke. "This is not going to go the way you think". Yep, that was certainly true of this movie. Let me tell you, I get the backlash that some fans have about his *almost* cutting down Ben Solo in his sleep. But he didn't. I'll offer up this quote to address the whole matter: "You will find that many of the truths we cling to rely greatly on our own point of view". Well, from Ben's point of view, Luke was about to cut him down in his sleep with a lightsaber. So he just might be justified in being anger. However, I thought the explanation of what led Luke to that point and why he ultimately didn't kill him held up. I forgive that scene. Now, was Luke done overall justice by this movie? I just don't know! That's one of the things I'm still processing...the handling of Luke. I LIKED every moment of him on screen. I liked his interaction with Rey. His reunion with Leia was a tear jerker, and his Force projection showdown with Kylo was cool. I was not going to do a bathroom break during a Luke scene.

 

Leia-I had no idea what to expect or just how much of the movie she would be in. Turns out it was quite a lot and....she didn't die! When she got blown out of the ship, I thought that was it. But then she uses the Force to reel herself back in to safety. "You have that power too. In time, you will come to use it as I have". That's what I wanted to see in these movies. That's what I missed in TFA and I figured with Fisher's death, that was going to be a stroyline that we just would not have the pleasure of seeing. But we got a glimpse of it, and I want more! But where to we go from here? Out of the Big Three original SW actors, the one that died in real life is the only one who's character is still alive. I don't know, but I was not going to do a bathroom break during a Leia scene.

 

Finn and Rosie's subplot did not do much for me. I thought Finn was entertaining in this movie, but overall there was just much more interesting stuff going on with the above characters. Benecio Deltoro's double crossing lock pick characters was ho-hum. THIS was going to be my time to ditch out quick for my bathroom break. And then Rosie hints that she loves Finn? Um...based on what? I mean, I made sure that bathroom break was QUICK. I know I couldn't have missed a whole love story build up. It was all just weak.

 

Poe's mutiny fail could have been done better. Like...maybe have the mutiny actually succeed. That would have been cool. The lady that took over when Leia was injured wasn't that interesting, she was ripe to be bumped out of the way.

 

Who the hell was Snoak? I was weary of this guy from the get go in TFA. At first glance, this is the Emperor. The Big Bad, all-powerful bad guy behind the main bad guy. And it turns out, a first glance is all we get because he's killed half way through the movie. My knee jerk reaction was, "good, get that Palpatine wannabe out of here", but then I wonder how that guy rose to that position of power in the first place? You had rumors that this guy was everyone from Mace Windu to Jar-Jar Binks to literally every other dead SW character. Now he's just dead so we'll never know. Is that good or bad?

 

Hux-solidified as a panzy by this movie. He's no Grand Moff Tarkin.

 

Phasma-solidified as another Bobba Fett by this movie (cue fan fiction about how she really didn't die from being thrown into that fire pit).

 

Chewbacca, R2, 3PO- I love them all, but they were completely unnecessary for this movie. The exact same story could have been told without them.

 

Yoda- Did he NEED to be in the movie? Probably not, but just let me have my moment of geek fun here. I loved seeing him and he looked like the ESB puppet instead of the prequel CGI cartoon. I'll take it.

 

So again, overall I just don't know about this movie. I need to decide if I'm ok with Luke's overall handling and the way he went out. You would have to think that the story of the Big Three, Luke, Han, and Leia, is over and considering how everything unfolded with Luke and Han's on-screen deaths and Fisher's real life death, I guess I'm left feeling a bit cold at this point. I look forward to more Kylo and Rey in #9 (not sure I buy Kylo saying her parents were nobodies). I just don't know if I can like this movie yet.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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  • 3 weeks later...

You sound like me, yojoe...we seem to be on the same page, as usual. I've been swinging back and forth ever since I saw The Last Jedi...at times I've felt like it didn't live up to my personal expectations, then I'll decide it's great and I liked it well enough. But now I think I've settled on the notion that I truly loved it, like I did in my initial reaction, because it all makes sense since I've decided a few things...

 

The only major issues I've grappled with are Luke's arc and Snoke's surprise elimination, and I've come to terms with both. Luke showed up at the very end, and it truly seemed like we were finally gonna get that scene with Luke we've all been anticipating since the very announcement of these movies. I was practically rubbing my hands together when he came walking down that passageway. But we all now know that wasn't really the case, of course, but it was the ending we needed. Like I said before, Luke wasn't coming back. He was so far gone in his grief, failure, and self-blame/loathing that he was beyond redemption. He had already watched the Falcon leave without him, with no other way off the island...although wouldn't it have been cool to not only see him raise his X-Wing out of the ocean, but put it back together in working order with the Force...a stark contrast to his failure to raise his original one on Dagobah, but I digress...he came back in one of the most powerful ways any Jedi ever has, displaying a power we hadn't seen before. It was awesome. And I got to thinking about the notion of him physically coming back at the end, sacrificing himself to save The Resistance...I wouldn't want to see Luke go out that way, to see him so overpowered and decimated, completely obliterated...all alone to die by himself on the battlefield. He would have become the symbol of defeat, emboldening Kylo Ren and The First Order. And if he had survived and single-handedly destroyed Kylo's forces, it would been like, Okay, that's done. "Super-Luke" saved the universe. What's next? (lol) And I feel like had he appeared in any of the sequels, he would have been a fifth-wheel type of character, tagging along and grumbling in the background all the time...I hate to admit it, but it really isn't Luke's story anymore, like I've seen Mark Hammil himself say in many interviews. I had a hard time coming to that conclusion, that I wouldn't be seeing him going off on new adventures and being a swashbuckling Jedi anymore, that it was Rey's story now, along with the younger generation. I resisted that for a time, resented it even, but that's just the way life is, the natural progression of things, and I think Disney's doing it right...

 

The other issue I had was how efficiently Snoke was done away with...there seemed to be so much mystery surrounding him, and I wanted to know so much more about him. But I got to thinking, and I know this is done a lot, and it may not be a fair point either way, but...if you compare Snoke to Palpatine in Return of the Jedi, he, too was foreboding, mysterious character, and Vader got rid of him in a similar turn of events, and in the beginning it looked as if that were it and we wouldn't know any more about him, only that he was Vader's evil, mysterious master, and now he's gone...it's been over forty years now since we heard his name mentioned in A New Hope, and we still don't know everything about him. I'll grant you, the prequel films fleshed him out a little more, but not much. So for now I'll be satisfied with Snoke's riveting and mysterious, albeit brief appearances, and just appreciate what Kylo Ren has become in his place and move on. Again, I think when fans get past expectations, they can enjoy it all so much more, and yet that can be very hard to do. Some can't get past it, and so they become disappointed and disenchanted with Star Wars, and that's okay. For me personally, I can take these films as they come, just as I did the prequels, enjoy them for what they are, accept the fact they may not be what I expected, but enjoy them anyway, and move on.

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