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For those that hated the IM3 twist spoilers ahead

#1 User is offline   Belmont13 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

It's no secret that many people hated the Mandarin twist in the Iron Man 3 movie, it seems that Marvel is aware of it and is looking to rectify it. Again the article contains spoilers concerning a majorly hated plot point in the movie.

http://latino-review...oject-revealed/

So there you go Marvel may correct the "mistake" of the Mandarin in the movie and with it "unraping" the character and childhoods all around.

#2 User is offline   Jmacq1 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:32 PM

View PostBelmont13, on 29 October 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

It's no secret that many people hated the Mandarin twist in the Iron Man 3 movie, it seems that Marvel is aware of it and is looking to rectify it. Again the article contains spoilers concerning a majorly hated plot point in the movie.

http://latino-review...oject-revealed/

So there you go Marvel may correct the "mistake" of the Mandarin in the movie and with it "unraping" the character and childhoods all around.


You do know that latino-review is one of the least-credible "comic book movie" websites around where their "exclusives" are concerned, right?

Don't count on this being true. And the plot twist wasn't "majorly hated" except by comic-book fanboys who were upset that Ben Kingsley wasn't playing Fu Manchu with magic rings. Doesn't help that the Mandarin has been one of the most inconsistent characters in comics, often completely changing his attitude and MO between each appearance. The fact that he's considered Iron Man's "arch enemy" isn't really due to the strength of the character, it's just a testament to how weak Iron Man's rogues' gallery is (which isn't a knock against Iron Man...most comic book characters not named Spider-Man and Batman have weak villain lineups).

I mean, if the Mandarin thing was "majorly hated" then Disney/Marvel is seriously hoping that many more of their movies are "majorly hated" to the tune of $1.2 billion dollars worldwide.

It also doesn't make any sense to do something like that in a short film, because as of yet there is no Iron Man 4 in the works, and the hypothetical "real Mandarin" is unlikely to appear in Avengers 2. So if it makes the butt-hurt fanboys feel better having the character get "fixed" only to not be used in the forseeable future, then I guess that's OK, but try to recall that the short films have had little-to-no direct linkage with the movie plots.

#3 User is online   megachickmagnet 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

I was under the impression that the character from the first Iron Man movie... (the one who held Stark captive and forced him to build a missile) was the Mandarin. Wasn't there a scene in the first film that showed him wearing rings on all ten fingers?

Perhaps they were originally setting him up to be the Mandarin... but then later decided to make a mockery of the character instead.

#4 User is offline   BigBot84 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:50 PM

The terrorist group was called the Ten Rings. I don't remember if he had ten rings, but he did have one or more that looked like they could be part of the ten rings.

#5 User is offline   Belmont13 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:02 PM

View PostJmacq1, on 29 October 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

View PostBelmont13, on 29 October 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

It's no secret that many people hated the Mandarin twist in the Iron Man 3 movie, it seems that Marvel is aware of it and is looking to rectify it. Again the article contains spoilers concerning a majorly hated plot point in the movie.

http://latino-review...oject-revealed/

So there you go Marvel may correct the "mistake" of the Mandarin in the movie and with it "unraping" the character and childhoods all around.


You do know that latino-review is one of the least-credible "comic book movie" websites around where their "exclusives" are concerned, right?

Don't count on this being true. And the plot twist wasn't "majorly hated" except by comic-book fanboys who were upset that Ben Kingsley wasn't playing Fu Manchu with magic rings. Doesn't help that the Mandarin has been one of the most inconsistent characters in comics, often completely changing his attitude and MO between each appearance. The fact that he's considered Iron Man's "arch enemy" isn't really due to the strength of the character, it's just a testament to how weak Iron Man's rogues' gallery is (which isn't a knock against Iron Man...most comic book characters not named Spider-Man and Batman have weak villain lineups).

I mean, if the Mandarin thing was "majorly hated" then Disney/Marvel is seriously hoping that many more of their movies are "majorly hated" to the tune of $1.2 billion dollars worldwide.

It also doesn't make any sense to do something like that in a short film, because as of yet there is no Iron Man 4 in the works, and the hypothetical "real Mandarin" is unlikely to appear in Avengers 2. So if it makes the butt-hurt fanboys feel better having the character get "fixed" only to not be used in the forseeable future, then I guess that's OK, but try to recall that the short films have had little-to-no direct linkage with the movie plots.


Hey don't shoot the messenger I was just passing along something I read, yes I'm well aware of the latinoreview's reputation it was the last one of 3 other sites where I saw the same report and that's why I posted that link looking back maybe I should have posted one of the others. Also I wasn't stating everything to be true this is all speculation like most things that's I wrote Marvel MAY correct the "mistake" of the Mandarin. I don't know how if you saw the previous Iron Man 3 thread here I posted I had no problem with the whole Mandarin situation was I disappointed? yeah but was it enough to sour the whole movie? no I still enjoyed it. The reason I phrased my post the way I did was in a sort of cynical/sarcastic way of poking fun of the people that made a deal about it but the movie is still the 2013's highest grosser(last time I checked).

#6 User is offline   Belmont13 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:06 PM

View PostBigBot84, on 29 October 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

The terrorist group was called the Ten Rings. I don't remember if he had ten rings, but he did have one or more that looked like they could be part of the ten rings.



Yes as far as I know it was pretty much that, and I remember him playing with one ring on his finger. I think the books(novelizations) expand on the group and the meaning of the rings but I haven't read them so I don't know.

#7 User is offline   yojoebro82 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:38 PM

This comment will make me appear that I am an evil person who takes joy in the suffering of others, but I loved the Mandarin reveal if for no other reason than seeing fanboys in a tizzy amuses me on a small, dastardly level. (I'm a bad person, I know). Yes, I know that means that the "real" Mandarin is apparently no longer around to play with in the sandbox that is the Marvel movie universe but in the big picture, it's something that we can live without.

As for this "fix" that may or may not happen, I think the plot they suggested in the article was lame. IF they go and fix it, say that was the real Mandarin all along and that he WANTED to be captured for some evil criminal mastermind kind of reason. That way Marvel can say that was their plan all along, the complainers get egg on their faces, and you keep a good actor (Kingsley) in the roll.

Can't wait for the 6" Mandarin to hit!

#8 User is offline   Belmont13 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

In that same vein I have a confession to make, there is a small sick part of me that enjoyed being "fooled" with the Mandarin, nowadays most movie plots and so called twist have become predictable the fact that they managed to pull a fast one on me kind amuses me in some masochistic way. @firedevil@

#9 User is offline   GuitarDevil 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:19 PM

I guess I was the only fanboy angered by the fact "Howard the Duck" didn't stay true to the comix.....after that fiasco Comic-Book Movies were un-dead to me....Jimbo Jones said it best "Now I don't believe in nothin"......well see what happens or not happens.....Ohhh latino-review I don't believe your consumer reviews anymore either.....buy extenze once, shame on you buy it twice shame on me.......:P

#10 User is offline   CLAM 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:39 PM

Marvel can't "fix" IronMan 3 unless they go back in time and completely change it. I don't know what is going on with Marvel Studios, but their movies are going down hill fast. Iron Man 1 was pretty good. Iron Man 2 wasn't. Iron Man 3 sucked.

There were so many crappy things about IM3.. it's impossible for them to fix it by simply slapping together a short film about Mandarin... and YES, the Mandarin character thing in IM3 was stupid as hell. What was the point of having Kingsly's character call himself Mandarin at all? Only comic fans would know about the Mandarin, and the trick was only a trick on them... and then having Guy Pierce's character reveal that he is the Mandarin at the end was even more dumb. I don't understand it, if they are wanting to create new stories instead of making movies that follow the comics, then just leave the comics out of it completely. Don't make some muddled movie that has some things that sort of relate to the comics forced in.


Cap 1 was pretty decent, except for his costume. Cap 2 doesn't look very promising.

Avengers was pretty good, almost great, except for the chitauri. Avengers 2 doesn't sound as good.

Thor was pretty good, and thankfully, Thor 2 looks as good.

Who knows what we can expect for Guardians of the Galaxy, but James Gunn isn't someone I am a fan of, so my expectations are low.

Antman doesn't sound great....

the Agents of Shield tv show sucks prett bad..


it's like Marvel Studios has just decided that they have had enough success from their first few movies to be able to draw in audiences just by slapping the MARVEL name in front of the title of a new movie... They don't need to keep making quality movies. Pretty soon the audiences are going to realize it and every movie won't be a blockbuster just because it's a MARVEL movie.

#11 User is offline   Dravenheart 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:15 PM

I don't really see why they would even consider going back and changing it. I mean, a movie doesn't break a billion unless people keep going back to see it. So that would really make them even more confident in their decision to change his story. So, I personally think it's just random talk.

And personally, I really liked it. I loved his portrayal of Mandarin, accent and all, and I thought the twist was great. It was different than Iron Man 2, and really went back to how the first Iron Man focused way more on Tony Stark. It has it's problems, as any movie does, but it was still pretty good. But I don't get concerned with changes they make in the movies. They can't keep everything the same, so there's no reason really worrying about it. I'm just enjoying seeing the characters on the big screen at all. lol

If they really do end up making a short film or something to change the story, then cool. I'm not too concerned personally. I just don't think they will, though.

#12 User is offline   mako 

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:24 PM

Anybody remember the movie "The Usual Suspects"? Remember how Kevin Spacey spent the entire picture playing a mentally impaired nobody who recounts the events of the movie in flash-back while being interviewed by the cops? Only at the end is it revealed Spacey is really the frequently mentioned but never seen uber-villain of the piece, Keyser Soze, and had not only manipulated all the other characters in the movie, but had been playing the cops for fools by feeding them a pack of lies and half-truths he fabricated on the spot from trivial information he picked up from various bits of litter strewn around the interview room.

When I finally saw the IM3 reveal, I remembered that and thought how cool it would've been if they had tacked on a twist reveal like that for a post credits sequence as opposed to the silly Stark / Banner bit.

#13 User is offline   Lady Jaye 

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

Maki, that would have redeemed the movie!!!

Call me a fanboy, but I too hated the twist!!! A ho hum movie was turned into something unwatchable!! I didn't care that the Mandarin wasn't Chinese, Ben Kingsley's performance pre-reveal was phenomenal!!! I was loving every bit of his screen time as his ultimate villain counterpart.

So his "reveal" was awful and just a slap to the face of someone enjoying his character on screen!! Forget the fact of his comic book counterpart, I was really liking this villain!! He was up there with other great film villains!! Easily the best Iron Man villain to date!! But no, they decided to reveal he was a phony and a fake!! Ughh!!

#14 User is offline   mako 

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostLady Jaye, on 31 October 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

But no, they decided to reveal he was a phony and a fake!! Ughh!!

I could even have dealt with him being a fake, but they played the whole reveal scene like some over the top Monty Python skit!

#15 User is offline   veronesis 

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:02 AM

I completely disagree. People always fall back on the its just the fan boys crap. I for one don't read comics and I know nothing about the comic version of Mandarin. I felt that IM3 Mandarin was a very cool mysterious villain that was much more interesting and threatening than another morally defunct CEO with visions of global power. I was completely invested in the character. The promotional work for him leading up to the movie made him look like a complete bad ass. The fact that Tony Stark just declared war on him and he shows up essentially wipes out his life was a great build. The movie was off to a great start. Then they completely pulled the rug out from under everything they had built and left us with something far inferior. While it was a clever twist, it was best suited for something else. The movie jumped the shark at the reveal and never righted itself. The final battle of the film with the extremis goons, remote controlled armors and super Pepper was just painful. I do agree that as much as I appreciate their efforts, this won't fix anything. You certainly have a right to your opinion and I'm glad that you guys liked it but to completely disregard anyone who disagrees as just whiny fan boys isn't true and isn't really doing you any favors.

#16 User is offline   JayC 

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 05:48 AM

View PostBelmont13, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

View PostJmacq1, on 29 October 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

View PostBelmont13, on 29 October 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

It's no secret that many people hated the Mandarin twist in the Iron Man 3 movie, it seems that Marvel is aware of it and is looking to rectify it. Again the article contains spoilers concerning a majorly hated plot point in the movie.

http://latino-review...oject-revealed/

So there you go Marvel may correct the "mistake" of the Mandarin in the movie and with it "unraping" the character and childhoods all around.


You do know that latino-review is one of the least-credible "comic book movie" websites around where their "exclusives" are concerned, right?

Don't count on this being true. And the plot twist wasn't "majorly hated" except by comic-book fanboys who were upset that Ben Kingsley wasn't playing Fu Manchu with magic rings. Doesn't help that the Mandarin has been one of the most inconsistent characters in comics, often completely changing his attitude and MO between each appearance. The fact that he's considered Iron Man's "arch enemy" isn't really due to the strength of the character, it's just a testament to how weak Iron Man's rogues' gallery is (which isn't a knock against Iron Man...most comic book characters not named Spider-Man and Batman have weak villain lineups).

I mean, if the Mandarin thing was "majorly hated" then Disney/Marvel is seriously hoping that many more of their movies are "majorly hated" to the tune of $1.2 billion dollars worldwide.

It also doesn't make any sense to do something like that in a short film, because as of yet there is no Iron Man 4 in the works, and the hypothetical "real Mandarin" is unlikely to appear in Avengers 2. So if it makes the butt-hurt fanboys feel better having the character get "fixed" only to not be used in the forseeable future, then I guess that's OK, but try to recall that the short films have had little-to-no direct linkage with the movie plots.


Hey don't shoot the messenger I was just passing along something I read, yes I'm well aware of the latinoreview's reputation it was the last one of 3 other sites where I saw the same report and that's why I posted that link looking back maybe I should have posted one of the others. Also I wasn't stating everything to be true this is all speculation like most things that's I wrote Marvel MAY correct the "mistake" of the Mandarin. I don't know how if you saw the previous Iron Man 3 thread here I posted I had no problem with the whole Mandarin situation was I disappointed? yeah but was it enough to sour the whole movie? no I still enjoyed it. The reason I phrased my post the way I did was in a sort of cynical/sarcastic way of poking fun of the people that made a deal about it but the movie is still the 2013's highest grosser(last time I checked).


Pretty sure this is bogus.

#17 User is offline   Jmacq1 

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 06:32 AM

The Screenwriter of Iron Man 3, Drew Pearce, has responded to the rumor:

"One thing I know for sure: nobody's going to be apologizing for the Mandarin twist any time soon."

http://www.comingsoo...s.php?id=110759

Just another bogus rumor to stir up some web traffic for latino-review.



#18 User is offline   mako 

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 10:03 AM

I think we might all have to accept an unwelcome truth. Under Disney's stewardship, Iron Man is quickly becoming a bad sitcom. Since this was the first movie since the change-over, I just hope that doesn't extend to Cap and Thor to.

#19 User is offline   Jmacq1 

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 11:31 AM

View Postmako, on 01 November 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

I think we might all have to accept an unwelcome truth. Under Disney's stewardship, Iron Man is quickly becoming a bad sitcom. Since this was the first movie since the change-over, I just hope that doesn't extend to Cap and Thor to.


Iron Man is basically done for the time being. RDJ only signed for Avengers 2 and 3. There is no Iron Man 4+ in the works.

The next solo Iron Man movie will have someone else playing Tony Stark, most likely, and will come after Avengers 3.

Captain America 2 is apparently pretty intense, but folks need to try to remember that these movies are supposed to be fun. Not joyless dark-filtered slogs.

Thor 2 reportedly has plenty of humor, but it's no more forced than what we got in Thor 1.

#20 User is offline   MysterioMenace 

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 05:55 PM

Here are my issues with a lot of comments in this thread.

First and foremost…we wouldn’t be discussing the amount of negativity revolving around the Mandarin twist had it not been so overwhelmingly…well…negative. The fact that it’s a topic completely validates the amount of negativity; else it wouldn’t be a discussion whatsoever. It’s really that simple. So just because some personally happened to like the said twist doesn’t discredit that you might, in fact are likely, in a minority. That too doesn’t discredit your opinion. Opinions are arbitrary, subjective things…but when discussing how the twist was received as far as minority or majority, this is not opinion. It’s merely factual to state that it was not received well.

Box office numbers are not an accurate indicator of how a film is viewed either, that’s far too idle an assumption. You don’t know you like a movie until you’ve paid to see it. So to anyone who states that the Mandarin twist isn’t as poorly taken as it may seem merely based on the films financial success, well your argument is ignorant and misguided else The Phantom Menace is one of the most popular Star Wars films. There are all kinds of angles that contribute to a films financial success, not the most astute being that it’s merely considered a predominately or even especially good movie. And just because there surely is some mad teenybopper juvenile or two in this world who really does sincerely think The Phantom Menace is the best of the saga doesn’t null and void the fact that they are a significant minority, it just doesn’t make their opinion wrong either. I myself saw that piece of crap a whopping ten times, perhaps out of misguided teen denial and loyalty, mayhap hopes of it growing on me…perhaps just sheer boredom. So surmised: Using the financial success of a mixed reception film as the foundation of your argument of it actually being well received is lazy, ignorant, and unfounded. They do not always correlate. Its poor reception would…again…not actually be a discussed topic right now had it not actually exist.

Also, the Mandarin twist is a fraction of the film itself. Disliking it in and of itself doesn’t directly translate to hating the film as a whole. I have no love for Iron Man 3, I despise the faux Mandarin persona…but I prefer it to Iron Man 2 and Thor. There's this bizarre opinion going around here basically stating that having a negative opinion is negative in and of itself, so it's breeding this narrow, moronic, hypocritical poster. Well...I find it much more respectable to be negative and critical toward something like a toy or film than it ever is toward a fellow posters sincere opinion...of which they are certainly entitled to. So I ask: Who is the more foolish, the hater or the hater who hates hating? The hypocrisy is astounding...they're toys and movies, who cares if someone hated it and (has ever right to) speaks it? Don't take it so damn seriously.

The truth is that Ben Kingsley really is confirmed to be working on something for Marvel and that, at this point, even despite the questionable credibility of The Latino Review, it seems reasonable that a REAL Mandarin isn’t out of the question. What is done with the character, I do not know. Iron Man 4 isn’t slated. Doubtful he’d appear anywhere else. It would be a save face move. As more and more come out…the more and more founded it seems to become though. And frankly, this is Marvel recognizing their questionable and risqué decision. And I can't help but feel it was done for just that shallow a reason...to have a shock value scene rather than ever done for legitimate literary merit. It’s simple; a REAL Mandarin would have gone over better than the fake ever did. Whether you like the fake or not, and it’s absurdly dismissive and also lazy to just presume that A. The Mandarin is hated only by comic fans, and B. That that’s the films only problem to begin with.

#21 User is offline   Jmacq1 

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:11 AM

View PostMysterioMenace, on 06 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Here are my issues with a lot of comments in this thread.

First and foremost…we wouldn't be discussing the amount of negativity revolving around the Mandarin twist had it not been so overwhelmingly…well…negative. The fact that it's a topic completely validates the amount of negativity; else it wouldn't be a discussion whatsoever. It's really that simple. So just because some personally happened to like the said twist doesn't discredit that you might, in fact are likely, in a minority. That too doesn't discredit your opinion. Opinions are arbitrary, subjective things…but when discussing how the twist was received as far as minority or majority, this is not opinion. It's merely factual to state that it was not received well.


This is complete and utter hogwash, laden with logical fallacy. It was not received well by some would be a factual statement. It would also be a factual statement to say that the type of person that frequents a website like this one is generally not representative of the vast bulk of audiences. What geeks like us enjoy and bemoan is often quite different from the things general audiences like and bemoan. The only place there is "overwhelming negativity" about the Mandarin twist are geek-oriented websites, and even then it's not even close to "overwhelming" and far closer to "50/50."

View PostMysterioMenace, on 06 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Box office numbers are not an accurate indicator of how a film is viewed either, that's far too idle an assumption. You don't know you like a movie until you've paid to see it. So to anyone who states that the Mandarin twist isn't as poorly taken as it may seem merely based on the films financial success, well your argument is ignorant and misguided else The Phantom Menace is one of the most popular Star Wars films. There are all kinds of angles that contribute to a films financial success, not the most astute being that it's merely considered a predominately or even especially good movie. And just because there surely is some mad teenybopper juvenile or two in this world who really does sincerely think The Phantom Menace is the best of the saga doesn't null and void the fact that they are a significant minority, it just doesn't make their opinion wrong either. I myself saw that piece of crap a whopping ten times, perhaps out of misguided teen denial and loyalty, mayhap hopes of it growing on me…perhaps just sheer boredom. So surmised: Using the financial success of a mixed reception film as the foundation of your argument of it actually being well received is lazy, ignorant, and unfounded. They do not always correlate. Its poor reception would…again…not actually be a discussed topic right now had it not actually exist.


Another specious paragraph. Audience ratings for the film on various websites average about the 80 percent range. Aggregate critical reviews (Rottentomatoes, etc...) fall right in line with those numbers. The Cinemascore for the film is "A." Couple this with the undeniable fact that the film held reasonably well from week-to-week rather than suffering a massive drop after opening weekend, and the actual preponderance of the facts is in my favor: The movie was solidly well-received by general audiences and critics alike. The pointing out of the box office grosses merely underscores the point that the movie was quite popular. Because an unpopular movie doesn't reach those numbers, and the whole "oh they're just going to see it because of what came before/don't know what they're getting until after they've paid" argument is colossally ignorant of both the fact that there are always a large number of critical reviews available, and the fact that the film didn't suffer a horrible drop in its' second week (which would have indicated toxic word-of-mouth on the film from general audiences).

Star Wars the Phantom Menace
is another false lead here. Ask most of the people who have watched the prequels, and they'll say they liked them. People on this website (and others like it) tend to live in the "geek bubble" where opinions get magnified to hyperbolic degrees and people seem to have great difficulty realizing that the collective opinions of "nerd dom" don't represent most of society. Here's a head-twister of a fact for you: The vast majority of people that saw the Star Wars prequels in theaters...have probably never once discussed them online with anyone.

View PostMysterioMenace, on 06 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Also, the Mandarin twist is a fraction of the film itself. Disliking it in and of itself doesn't directly translate to hating the film as a whole. I have no love for Iron Man 3, I despise the faux Mandarin persona…but I prefer it to Iron Man 2 and Thor. There's this bizarre opinion going around here basically stating that having a negative opinion is negative in and of itself, so it's breeding this narrow, moronic, hypocritical poster. Well...I find it much more respectable to be negative and critical toward something like a toy or film than it ever is toward a fellow posters sincere opinion...of which they are certainly entitled to. So I ask: Who is the more foolish, the hater or the hater who hates hating? The hypocrisy is astounding...they're toys and movies, who cares if someone hated it and (has ever right to) speaks it? Don't take it so damn seriously.


I like the part where you point out supposed "hypocrisy" and then tell people to "not take it so seriously" after a tremendously long-winded rant. Hypocrite, heal thyself! Guess what? I've got my right to express an opinion too, whether you like that opinion or not. Funny how that works, huh?

View PostMysterioMenace, on 06 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

The truth is that Ben Kingsley really is confirmed to be working on something for Marvel and that, at this point, even despite the questionable credibility of The Latino Review, it seems reasonable that a REAL Mandarin isn't out of the question. What is done with the character, I do not know. Iron Man 4 isn't slated. Doubtful he'd appear anywhere else. It would be a save face move. As more and more come out…the more and more founded it seems to become though. And frankly, this is Marvel recognizing their questionable and risqué decision. And I can't help but feel it was done for just that shallow a reason...to have a shock value scene rather than ever done for legitimate literary merit. It's simple; a REAL Mandarin would have gone over better than the fake ever did. Whether you like the fake or not, and it's absurdly dismissive and also lazy to just presume that A. The Mandarin is hated only by comic fans, and B. That that's the films only problem to begin with.


As 'more and more" what comes out? The screenwriter of the film has denied it. The only other bit is the rumor piece from latino-review itself. There isn't anything else. Iron Man 3 is the highest grossing movie of the year so far with generally positive reception from critics and audiences alike. Ergo, there isn't the slightest bit of need for anyone to "save face." The fact that you think so only goes to show that you're yet another of those firmly trapped under the "bubble."

Marvel hasn't "recognized their questionable decision." You speak as though the rumor is proven truth already, when on one hand we have evidence from someone that actually works on the film denying it...and a report from a website of questionable credibility on the other.

You posted a whole lot of words, without anything in the way of actual facts to back them up. Better luck next time.

#22 User is offline   yojoebro82 

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 07:43 PM

Wow, reading those last two posts was something. I'm just going to say right now that I understood about 89% of what was said :)

I can speak to this, however:

View PostJmacq1, on 08 November 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

It was not received well by some would be a factual statement. It would also be a factual statement to say that the type of person that frequents a website like this one is generally not representative of the vast bulk of audiences. What geeks like us enjoy and bemoan is often quite different from the things general audiences like and bemoan. The only place there is "overwhelming negativity" about the Mandarin twist are geek-oriented websites, and even then it's not even close to "overwhelming" and far closer to "50/50."


Me and the fiance watched IM3 again this past weekend. I was reminded of how much I enjoyed it. My fiance REALLY likes it. I KNOW she thinks it's the best Iron Man, she MAY even consider it her favorite Marvel movie, I haven't asked her that yet (only one that might beat it out in her mind would be Avengers). She has no knowledge of any comic continuity. To her, these are the only versions of these characters. We talked about the whole Mandarin thing in the car yesterday and I told her there are a lot of geeks POed by it. But as someone on the "outside", she very much enjoyed the twist and even went so far as to say the the actor character was a good character in and of himself (not Kingsley, but the guy Kingsley played. Though Kingsley WAS great in both rolls. Confused yet?)

Anyway, I guess I'm just trying to reiterate that these movies are NOT just made for the comic fan...whether they like it or not. Maybe when something veers off course from what we know from the comics, we can all try to keep in perspective that the creators are most likely doing it because they honestly think it's the best decision for the MOVIE and NOT being done as a blatant F-you to the fans. What we might bemoan and condemn, someone else, who's opinion is no less valid, might thoroughly enjoy.

#23 User is offline   redrum2581 

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 08:30 PM

I loved IM3 and 2 and 1, you know why? same reason I liked the 2nd half of the hulk, every blade movie, and every other marvel movie.....the awesome action, that's all that matters, I don't care about the story half the stories in the comics are crap these days 7734 are there even any marvel marriages still alive? and y'all berate the story of the movies? its an action movie with a story to kinda tie the action together, you want something dramatic and awe inspiring go watch one of those academy award nominee movies and I won't say that there aren't things that I haven't liked in the marvel movies but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying them none the less

#24 User is offline   revsears 

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:41 PM

some good old fashioned deep discussion going on in here! It's ultimatly very true Jamcq1 said, we live in a nerd bubble. I do think the success of movies like this point to a large growth in that bubble, but I also think you would be crazy to the public really knew the full details of the "real" Mandarin.

Bottom line for me is that it's done. Reversing it now (and via a short) is only confusing to the Marvel Cinematic U, making more casual fans scratch their heads, and waste a valuable slot that could be used to prop Guardians of the Galaxy more or Ant-man one of the movies who may need a little more push.

#25 User is offline   MysterioMenace 

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:33 PM

View PostJmacq1, on 08 November 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

View PostMysterioMenace, on 06 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Here are my issues with a lot of comments in this thread.

First and foremost…we wouldn't be discussing the amount of negativity revolving around the Mandarin twist had it not been so overwhelmingly…well…negative. The fact that it's a topic completely validates the amount of negativity; else it wouldn't be a discussion whatsoever. It's really that simple. So just because some personally happened to like the said twist doesn't discredit that you might, in fact are likely, in a minority. That too doesn't discredit your opinion. Opinions are arbitrary, subjective things…but when discussing how the twist was received as far as minority or majority, this is not opinion. It's merely factual to state that it was not received well.


This is complete and utter hogwash, laden with logical fallacy. It was not received well by some would be a factual statement. It would also be a factual statement to say that the type of person that frequents a website like this one is generally not representative of the vast bulk of audiences. What geeks like us enjoy and bemoan is often quite different from the things general audiences like and bemoan. The only place there is "overwhelming negativity" about the Mandarin twist are geek-oriented websites, and even then it's not even close to "overwhelming" and far closer to "50/50."

View PostMysterioMenace, on 06 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Box office numbers are not an accurate indicator of how a film is viewed either, that's far too idle an assumption. You don't know you like a movie until you've paid to see it. So to anyone who states that the Mandarin twist isn't as poorly taken as it may seem merely based on the films financial success, well your argument is ignorant and misguided else The Phantom Menace is one of the most popular Star Wars films. There are all kinds of angles that contribute to a films financial success, not the most astute being that it's merely considered a predominately or even especially good movie. And just because there surely is some mad teenybopper juvenile or two in this world who really does sincerely think The Phantom Menace is the best of the saga doesn't null and void the fact that they are a significant minority, it just doesn't make their opinion wrong either. I myself saw that piece of crap a whopping ten times, perhaps out of misguided teen denial and loyalty, mayhap hopes of it growing on me…perhaps just sheer boredom. So surmised: Using the financial success of a mixed reception film as the foundation of your argument of it actually being well received is lazy, ignorant, and unfounded. They do not always correlate. Its poor reception would…again…not actually be a discussed topic right now had it not actually exist.


Another specious paragraph. Audience ratings for the film on various websites average about the 80 percent range. Aggregate critical reviews (Rottentomatoes, etc...) fall right in line with those numbers. The Cinemascore for the film is "A." Couple this with the undeniable fact that the film held reasonably well from week-to-week rather than suffering a massive drop after opening weekend, and the actual preponderance of the facts is in my favor: The movie was solidly well-received by general audiences and critics alike. The pointing out of the box office grosses merely underscores the point that the movie was quite popular. Because an unpopular movie doesn't reach those numbers, and the whole "oh they're just going to see it because of what came before/don't know what they're getting until after they've paid" argument is colossally ignorant of both the fact that there are always a large number of critical reviews available, and the fact that the film didn't suffer a horrible drop in its' second week (which would have indicated toxic word-of-mouth on the film from general audiences).

Star Wars the Phantom Menace
is another false lead here. Ask most of the people who have watched the prequels, and they'll say they liked them. People on this website (and others like it) tend to live in the "geek bubble" where opinions get magnified to hyperbolic degrees and people seem to have great difficulty realizing that the collective opinions of "nerd dom" don't represent most of society. Here's a head-twister of a fact for you: The vast majority of people that saw the Star Wars prequels in theaters...have probably never once discussed them online with anyone.

View PostMysterioMenace, on 06 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Also, the Mandarin twist is a fraction of the film itself. Disliking it in and of itself doesn't directly translate to hating the film as a whole. I have no love for Iron Man 3, I despise the faux Mandarin persona…but I prefer it to Iron Man 2 and Thor. There's this bizarre opinion going around here basically stating that having a negative opinion is negative in and of itself, so it's breeding this narrow, moronic, hypocritical poster. Well...I find it much more respectable to be negative and critical toward something like a toy or film than it ever is toward a fellow posters sincere opinion...of which they are certainly entitled to. So I ask: Who is the more foolish, the hater or the hater who hates hating? The hypocrisy is astounding...they're toys and movies, who cares if someone hated it and (has ever right to) speaks it? Don't take it so damn seriously.


I like the part where you point out supposed "hypocrisy" and then tell people to "not take it so seriously" after a tremendously long-winded rant. Hypocrite, heal thyself! Guess what? I've got my right to express an opinion too, whether you like that opinion or not. Funny how that works, huh?

View PostMysterioMenace, on 06 November 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

The truth is that Ben Kingsley really is confirmed to be working on something for Marvel and that, at this point, even despite the questionable credibility of The Latino Review, it seems reasonable that a REAL Mandarin isn't out of the question. What is done with the character, I do not know. Iron Man 4 isn't slated. Doubtful he'd appear anywhere else. It would be a save face move. As more and more come out…the more and more founded it seems to become though. And frankly, this is Marvel recognizing their questionable and risqué decision. And I can't help but feel it was done for just that shallow a reason...to have a shock value scene rather than ever done for legitimate literary merit. It's simple; a REAL Mandarin would have gone over better than the fake ever did. Whether you like the fake or not, and it's absurdly dismissive and also lazy to just presume that A. The Mandarin is hated only by comic fans, and B. That that's the films only problem to begin with.


As 'more and more" what comes out? The screenwriter of the film has denied it. The only other bit is the rumor piece from latino-review itself. There isn't anything else. Iron Man 3 is the highest grossing movie of the year so far with generally positive reception from critics and audiences alike. Ergo, there isn't the slightest bit of need for anyone to "save face." The fact that you think so only goes to show that you're yet another of those firmly trapped under the "bubble."

Marvel hasn't "recognized their questionable decision." You speak as though the rumor is proven truth already, when on one hand we have evidence from someone that actually works on the film denying it...and a report from a website of questionable credibility on the other.

You posted a whole lot of words, without anything in the way of actual facts to back them up. Better luck next time.


I never responded. I waited to the precise moment...mostly because it would be so much sweeter to have proof of how...utterly...wrong you are. Well guess what.

*clears throat*

...so ah...have you seen this yet? http://www.following...its-taken-down/

Oh how I just love being right all the time.

I told you so. ;]
So there it is. There's a REAL Mandarin. And there's a real Mandarin...for a reason. This is an apology.

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