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Superman thoughts

#1 User is offline   yojoebro82 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:18 AM

I saw Mark Waid at a comic con yesterday and he signed my Birthright comics. He was a very gracious guy. I told him how much I enjoyed them and that DC should have stuck with his story. He told me that his lasted maybe a year and a half before they did something else. I then made the observation that DC has redone the origin something like five times in ten years. I told him I really don't think DC knows what to do with him. He agreed with me.

I couldn't tell you how many chance I've given the Superman comics, I WANT them to be great. But with Superman, DC is just throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks.

Comics: Currently Superman is de-aged to a twenty-something and his marriage is erased (Three creative team change ups on his main title in the fist year of a major reboot? I though you go into something that big with an actual plan).

Movies: Currently Superman is a brooder and things blow up around him a lot.

I don't see these takes on the character sticking around long either.

Surprisingly, the best Superman portrayal I've seen recently is in the Lego video game. They cut out all the crap and just made him fun.

I say sell him to Marvel. Maybe they can do something with him.

End Superman thoughts.

#2 User is offline   GPM in ICT 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:51 AM

You really think Marvel could do better? While I agree that DC doesn't know what to do with him, I think that after 75 years of comics, TV, movies and radio that there isn't much that hasn't been done with him. After a certain point your either redoing something that someone else has already done (or something quite similar) or invalidating something someone else has done. Your going to upset someone no matter what. I'm of the mind that as long as the majority of fans are entertained (and I don't have to be in that majority) then I'm OK with it. I liked both the Man of Steel movie and Superman Returns, didn't care for Smallville but liked the 80's/90's Superboy TV show and parts of Lois and Clark. Didn't care for Birthright, but really like Bryne's Man of Steel and his take on Superman. The 90's and 2000;s Superman comics were hit or miss for me. The 90's Superman cartoon and JLA were really good depictions of Superman, but I think that for kids and people looking for a Nostalgic take on Superman they work well. The worlds just a much harder place that it was in the past (not so much as a reality, but in the ways it's presented 24/7 on TV) and people just expect a hero to reflect that. But this is all my opinion and yours is probably different.

#3 User is offline   Eric 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:54 PM

Superman doesn't have good enough villains. And given his powers, it has to be all about drama to make him interesting (his immortality, the last of his kind, etc.). But his drama doesn't compare to someone like Batman (who has great villains to boot) or Wolverine. So you can only tell so many good stories because you can't constantly talk about his loneliness or fear of his family and friends dying. You can only tell them here and there. And Lex Luthor just isn't interesting enough to fill in the gaps between.

When you think of Batman, you think of Batman and Robin and the Joker and Catwoman. When you think of Superman, you just think of Superman. I think that's his problem.

And turning him into a pretentious d-bag who hooks up with Wonder Woman or whatever he is now is not appealing in the least. He's not identifiable at all.

#4 User is offline   mako 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:13 PM

View Postyojoebro82, on 06 October 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I saw Mark Waid at a comic con yesterday and he signed my Birthright comics. He was a very gracious guy. I told him how much I enjoyed them and that DC should have stuck with his story. He told me that his lasted maybe a year and a half before they did something else. I then made the observation that DC has redone the origin something like five times in ten years. I told him I really don't think DC knows what to do with him. He agreed with me.

Excuse my ignorance, I haven't been reading comics regularly since the late '90's, but isn't Birthright the one where Superman becomes a Vegan because his new power-set includes "soul-vision," so he can't bring himself to eat meat (he can see it's soul)?

#5 User is offline   yojoebro82 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:56 PM

View PostGPM in ICT, on 06 October 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

You really think Marvel could do better? While I agree that DC doesn't know what to do with him, I think that after 75 years of comics, TV, movies and radio that there isn't much that hasn't been done with him. After a certain point your either redoing something that someone else has already done (or something quite similar) or invalidating something someone else has done. Your going to upset someone no matter what. I'm of the mind that as long as the majority of fans are entertained (and I don't have to be in that majority) then I'm OK with it. I liked both the Man of Steel movie and Superman Returns, didn't care for Smallville but liked the 80's/90's Superboy TV show and parts of Lois and Clark. Didn't care for Birthright, but really like Bryne's Man of Steel and his take on Superman. The 90's and 2000;s Superman comics were hit or miss for me. The 90's Superman cartoon and JLA were really good depictions of Superman, but I think that for kids and people looking for a Nostalgic take on Superman they work well. The worlds just a much harder place that it was in the past (not so much as a reality, but in the ways it's presented 24/7 on TV) and people just expect a hero to reflect that. But this is all my opinion and yours is probably different.


Those are all very good points, good post.

I don't know if Marvel would do any better but it would be interesting.

#6 User is offline   yojoebro82 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:57 PM

View Postmako, on 06 October 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

View Postyojoebro82, on 06 October 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I saw Mark Waid at a comic con yesterday and he signed my Birthright comics. He was a very gracious guy. I told him how much I enjoyed them and that DC should have stuck with his story. He told me that his lasted maybe a year and a half before they did something else. I then made the observation that DC has redone the origin something like five times in ten years. I told him I really don't think DC knows what to do with him. He agreed with me.

Excuse my ignorance, I haven't been reading comics regularly since the late '90's, but isn't Birthright the one where Superman becomes a Vegan because his new power-set includes "soul-vision," so he can't bring himself to eat meat (he can see it's soul)?


Ha ha. Um, no.

#7 User is offline   featofstrength 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 06:02 PM

View Postmako, on 06 October 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Excuse my ignorance, I haven't been reading comics regularly since the late '90's, but isn't Birthright the one where Superman becomes a Vegan because his new power-set includes "soul-vision," so he can't bring himself to eat meat (he can see it's soul)?


YES. That is more or less correct.

#8 User is offline   JayC 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:11 PM

I've never much gotten into the Superman comics. I like him in the team setting with the Justice League or playing off Batman, but on his own he is just boring. I don't mind him hooking up with Wonder Woman, never been a fan of Lois Lane. Lex Luthor is a good villain but way over played and most the other Superman villains are boring.

#9 User is offline   yojoebro82 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:10 PM

View Postfeatofstrength, on 06 October 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

View Postmako, on 06 October 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Excuse my ignorance, I haven't been reading comics regularly since the late '90's, but isn't Birthright the one where Superman becomes a Vegan because his new power-set includes "soul-vision," so he can't bring himself to eat meat (he can see it's soul)?


YES. That is more or less correct.


What? Which issue is that in? I'll have to go back and look. Maybe I complemented Waid too soon :)

#10 User is offline   CaptainTriumph 

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:19 PM

The lack of a real Superman push for his 75th anniversary speaks volumes about the current state of the character.

His new comics just haven't been that good.

#11 User is offline   GPM in ICT 

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 06:22 PM

While maybe they could have done a bit more to promote the 75th Anniversary, They did have a Major Movie come out, Three new Comic series (Superman Unchained, Batman/Superman and Superman/Wonder Woman), got several huge mentions in the Mainstream media, was in a major video game and has had a HUGE presence in stores in the form of toys and merch. I'm sure DC and Warners could have done more but not much. I also think that DC and Warners doesn't want to pus the fact that Superman in 75 down the mainstream publics face because of the fact that something that old can't be "cool". A better thing to wonder is what do they have in store for Batman next year for his 75th? No movie or game, a TV series (Beware the Batman) that in my opinion isn't very good. Sure you have the comics, but not much out besides that.

#12 User is offline   featofstrength 

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:20 PM

View Postyojoebro82, on 06 October 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

View Postfeatofstrength, on 06 October 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

View Postmako, on 06 October 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Excuse my ignorance, I haven't been reading comics regularly since the late '90's, but isn't Birthright the one where Superman becomes a Vegan because his new power-set includes "soul-vision," so he can't bring himself to eat meat (he can see it's soul)?


YES. That is more or less correct.


What? Which issue is that in? I'll have to go back and look. Maybe I complemented Waid too soon :)


not sure which issue...I had the TPB, but gave it away...
http://en.wikipedia....man:_Birthright
okay, so he's vegetarian not vegan.

#13 User is offline   ensign 

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:06 AM

First, the New 52 is stupid. Secondly, and more importantly, Bruce Timms DCAU is the best incarnation of Superman hands down I think. Brooding is Batmans thing, Superman is suppose to be the All American Hero, the internal optimist, and all around good guy. I think DCAU gets rid of all of the silly stuff and insane powers and just focuses on the important powers and relevent history of the character. The most insane (not in a good way) version Ive seen of Superman is the Animated DC ALL STAR SUPERMAN movie. That all the stupid powers, Robots, and Kandor. DCAU is my Superman and pretty much my DC Universe.

#14 User is offline   mako 

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:25 PM

View Postensign, on 08 October 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

First, the New 52 is stupid. Secondly, and more importantly, Bruce Timms DCAU is the best incarnation of Superman hands down I think. Brooding is Batmans thing, Superman is suppose to be the All American Hero, the internal optimist, and all around good guy. I think DCAU gets rid of all of the silly stuff and insane powers and just focuses on the important powers and relevent history of the character. The most insane (not in a good way) version Ive seen of Superman is the Animated DC ALL STAR SUPERMAN movie. That all the stupid powers, Robots, and Kandor. DCAU is my Superman and pretty much my DC Universe.

There you go! I have my issues with certain aspects of the DCAU, but for the most part these shows ARE my comics. As long as I have the DCAU Superman you can do all the Birthrights and New 52s you want. For that matter, Nolan's Bat-Opus had nothing on The New Batman Adventures either.

Feel somewhat the same way about the animated movies, but mostly just the DCAU.

#15 User is offline   StrangePlanet 

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:30 PM

Actually, the very best Superman stories I ever read were the Supreme comics by Alan Moore.
(and All-Star Superman)

I like the idea of him going vegetarian. (not crazy about soul-vision)
I like when they focus on how this god-like person interacts with the world in a realistic way.

I can't imagine how he can even look at us humans. He can see all the little bugs crawling all over our faces and living in our eyelashes. He can see that clear as day. We must be so gross to him.

#16 User is offline   yojoebro82 

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 06:05 PM

I was wondering this and decided it didn't need its own thread so I'll ask here.

What's the story with Faora/Ursa? They're essentially the same character from what I can tell. Both are a Kryptonian beeoutch, cause trouble along with Zod, short, dark hair. From what I gather first she was Faora in the old comic, then Ursa in the Donner movies, then Faora in the the Byrne Superman reboot (I have that issue), then Ursa again in the 2000's comics, then Faora again in the new movie, now I see a chick that LOOKS like movie Faora on the cover of the new Superman/Wonder Woman #1. But is she Faora or Ursa this time?

#17 User is offline   mako 

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:05 PM

View Postyojoebro82, on 11 October 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

I was wondering this and decided it didn't need its own thread so I'll ask here.

What's the story with Faora/Ursa? They're essentially the same character from what I can tell. Both are a Kryptonian beeoutch, cause trouble along with Zod, short, dark hair. From what I gather first she was Faora in the old comic, then Ursa in the Donner movies, then Faora in the the Byrne Superman reboot (I have that issue), then Ursa again in the 2000's comics, then Faora again in the new movie, now I see a chick that LOOKS like movie Faora on the cover of the new Superman/Wonder Woman #1. But is she Faora or Ursa this time?

If you're looking for some keen insight, I doubt you'll find it. For whatever reason, the Salkinds Black Vulcanized Ursa and Non from existing comic book Zoners. Maybe they wanted to save money on licensing (unlikely since DC/Warner basically handed them the keys to the entire Superman Family), or maybe they just thought Zod, Non, and Ursa sounded cooler. In the 2000's DC was playing around with "hypertime" (or whatever it was called), and basically absorbed everything Superman from the Kirk Allyn serials to Smallville into comic continuity. So Non and Ursa find a home at DC. The new movie wanted to replace the Salkind movies in our hearts and minds, so back to Faora.

But with all this wheeling and dealing and retconning, the most impotant question of our time STILL remains unanswered.

Where the #&!! is Zoltar!?!

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