[ARROW]

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Has Hasbro come out and expressed that G.I.Joe has been dying a slow death since it's 2000 re-launch? I know they've tried just about everything under the sun to bring it back to life (or to get the "kids" interested in it enough to perform cpr on it) and all efforts seem to have failed and dropped or moved away from and onto some other scheme?

The thing that strikes me though, is that it's still a top seeling brand for them, so if the "kids" aren't catching on, then the old kids are still supporting the line just well enough to keep it on the shelves for the past 9 years which is damn near equal to it's 80's-90's original run.

GIJOE is not a top selling brand for Hasbro, just a "well-known" one. Star Wars, Transformers, Marvel and bunch of other toy-lines Hasbro makes sell better.
GIJOE sells to a niche market--as shown by the limited peg space the brand gets.
The oft-stated lament from Hasbro is that GIJOE sells great at X-mas time, but not the rest of the year.

The reason Hasbro revisits GIJOE constantly is because its a house brand, like Transformers, and so there's no licensing fees to pay out--as there is with Marvel or Star Wars.
For this reason, if Hasbro marketing can maneuver GIJOE into being a popular brand again, the potential for profit makes the effort worthwhile. Transformers is already solidly placed in terms of a perennial toy-line, because the movies, TV shows and toys are all popular.
GIJOE has been a much tougher sell, because finding the right balance of fantasy and realism has been much harder.

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I don't know why Hasbro can't just embrace that fact and stop playing down the importance of the old kids supporting this line? It's like they keep saying we appreciate your support but we don't care about you all that much. They wised up and finally gave us something that the fans were begging for (the 25th line) and am I incorrect in assuming it's been the most popular of every theme tried since 2000?

I think the reason why it seems like they say they appreciate the support but don;t care is because there's simply not enough of us to care about. There's just not enough consumers buying GIJOE product lately.
To my mind, I think the Spytroops product of a few years ago was probably the most popular stuff done in the past 20 years, because it had a great concept, had a lot of good product, had a sizable amount of peg space, and had media tie-ins. That's the best yardstick for those of us on this side of the fence---how much product has been showing up in stores and the space given in the aisle.
Spytroops had, iirc, about a 10th of an aisle space, at most, more than most of the lines before or since.
If Star Wars gets 1/3 of an 30 foot aisle, and Transformers the same, and GIJOE gets 2 pegs and about a foot of shelf space........then I think its safe to assume that GIJOE is selling far, far less than the other two.


The movie looks to be trying to set up a similar campaign to Transformers because it looks to be fielding a LOT of product. Even of the peg space for the line is not huge, there's still going to be a lot of choice.
Hell, I've even changed my feelings of a total pass on the product to a marginal pass--because stuff like the PITT Commando figure caught my eye.

I think that we are facing a sort of crossroads here.
Either the movie will be popular enough that a lot of kids ( and collectors) become interested enough to buy into GIJOE toys--and the product moves at a healthy pace off the shelves, which would mean we collectors will have modest trouble getting stuff. And GIJOE will continue, because there's more than just collector interest.

Or, the movie will tank (pun!), interest in the toys will be small and there will be LOTS to choose from in the stores--meaning all of us collectors can have our fill as we please.
And GIJOE will likely die off because there's just not enough interest.

[TMNTFAN85]

ARROW, on Jun 8 2009, 12:30 PM, said:

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Has Hasbro come out and expressed that G.I.Joe has been dying a slow death since it's 2000 re-launch? I know they've tried just about everything under the sun to bring it back to life (or to get the "kids" interested in it enough to perform cpr on it) and all efforts seem to have failed and dropped or moved away from and onto some other scheme?

The thing that strikes me though, is that it's still a top seeling brand for them, so if the "kids" aren't catching on, then the old kids are still supporting the line just well enough to keep it on the shelves for the past 9 years which is damn near equal to it's 80's-90's original run.

GIJOE is not a top selling brand for Hasbro, just a "well-known" one. Star Wars, Transformers, Marvel and bunch of other toy-lines Hasbro makes sell better.
GIJOE sells to a niche market--as shown by the limited peg space the brand gets.
The oft-stated lament from Hasbro is that GIJOE sells great at X-mas time, but not the rest of the year.

The reason Hasbro revisits GIJOE constantly is because its a house brand, like Transformers, and so there's no licensing fees to pay out--as there is with Marvel or Star Wars.
For this reason, if Hasbro marketing can maneuver GIJOE into being a popular brand again, the potential for profit makes the effort worthwhile. Transformers is already solidly placed in terms of a perennial toy-line, because the movies, TV shows and toys are all popular.
GIJOE has been a much tougher sell, because finding the right balance of fantasy and realism has been much harder.

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I don't know why Hasbro can't just embrace that fact and stop playing down the importance of the old kids supporting this line? It's like they keep saying we appreciate your support but we don't care about you all that much. They wised up and finally gave us something that the fans were begging for (the 25th line) and am I incorrect in assuming it's been the most popular of every theme tried since 2000?

I think the reason why it seems like they say they appreciate the support but don;t care is because there's simply not enough of us to care about. There's just not enough consumers buying GIJOE product lately.
To my mind, I think the Spytroops product of a few years ago was probably the most popular stuff done in the past 20 years, because it had a great concept, had a lot of good product, had a sizable amount of peg space, and had media tie-ins. That's the best yardstick for those of us on this side of the fence---how much product has been showing up in stores and the space given in the aisle.
Spytroops had, iirc, about a 10th of an aisle space, at most, more than most of the lines before or since.
If Star Wars gets 1/3 of an 30 foot aisle, and Transformers the same, and GIJOE gets 2 pegs and about a foot of shelf space........then I think its safe to assume that GIJOE is selling far, far less than the other two.


The movie looks to be trying to set up a similar campaign to Transformers because it looks to be fielding a LOT of product. Even of the peg space for the line is not huge, there's still going to be a lot of choice.
Hell, I've even changed my feelings of a total pass on the product to a marginal pass--because stuff like the PITT Commando figure caught my eye.

I think that we are facing a sort of crossroads here.
Either the movie will be popular enough that a lot of kids ( and collectors) become interested enough to buy into GIJOE toys--and the product moves at a healthy pace off the shelves, which would mean we collectors will have modest trouble getting stuff. And GIJOE will continue, because there's more than just collector interest.

Or, the movie will tank (pun!), interest in the toys will be small and there will be LOTS to choose from in the stores--meaning all of us collectors can have our fill as we please.
And GIJOE will likely die off because there's just not enough interest.

you know its not always about the 'collector' see at hiss tank a guy made a good point see his son went absolutly ape #$@# when he saw the commerical on tv. you guys must realize that hasbro is targetting the kids and teens and trust me when i neice saw the guy whose playing duke she got excited apperently he's been in teen movies so the teens will see the movie. with some joe fans willing to see the movie with open minds the rest of the money is gonna be made up by children and teenagers. so can you denie and robb a child's childhood for the movie? just because it not 'the 80's version' the simple fact remains that this is not your GIJOE its the kid's brand new GIJOE and hasbro i think knows what theyre doing.

while i'm sure some of you will disagree with me and continue to disagree...fact is...just stop it. its gonna happen, the movie will come out and which ever fate for the movie good or bad --if the movie suceeds then GIJOE will continue be an intresst for walmart, target to keep selling...if it fails....then say good bye to your classic joes and joes in general because once the intresst is down GIJOE will be gone.

i wont tell you what to do see the movie if you want see it with with an open mind if you want, but dont dragg down the excitment for others. far as i'm concern i'm moving aside for the next generation to enjoy they're version of GIJOE.

the 12inch fans were NEVER fond of the GIJOE VS COBRA line, but did they #$#@#? no. they moved aside focus on theyre 12inch soldier or adventurer while kids in the 80's enjoyed the fun and excitment of the GIJOE vs COBRA.


now i hope to god that someone would agree with me on this and look at it the way it is. *rubs my forehead* i'm seeing this as maturely as possible. and i'm not gonna say 'i'm supporting the movie cus i like it' all of you know that.


the thing is, support the film if you want. if you want your children to enjoy GIJOE in the coming future. GIJOE cannot survive with out fans...while we want classics we have to step aside and let kids have theyre fun. and in a year or 2 after the movie's died down hasbro will bring back the classics to please you all. you guys should be lucky...i mean over at the trenches forms i'm sure some 12inch fans want theyre classic military line back or theyre adventure team.

i think i made my point, no matter what size or form G.I. JOE will always be G.I. JOE so just accept change for the sake of GIJOE continuing to sell in store.

[Viper Hunter]

ARROW, on Jun 8 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

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I don't know why Hasbro can't just embrace that fact and stop playing down the importance of the old kids supporting this line? It's like they keep saying we appreciate your support but we don't care about you all that much. They wised up and finally gave us something that the fans were begging for (the 25th line) and am I incorrect in assuming it's been the most popular of every theme tried since 2000?

I think the reason why it seems like they say they appreciate the support but don;t care is because there's simply not enough of us to care about. There's just not enough consumers buying GIJOE product lately.
To my mind, I think the Spytroops product of a few years ago was probably the most popular stuff done in the past 20 years, because it had a great concept, had a lot of good product, had a sizable amount of peg space, and had media tie-ins. That's the best yardstick for those of us on this side of the fence---how much product has been showing up in stores and the space given in the aisle.
Spytroops had, iirc, about a 10th of an aisle space, at most, more than most of the lines before or since.
If Star Wars gets 1/3 of an 30 foot aisle, and Transformers the same, and GIJOE gets 2 pegs and about a foot of shelf space........then I think its safe to assume that GIJOE is selling far, far less than the other two.

The thing I think about though, is that all the while us consumers are b!tching and moaning about this theme and that theme or this style and articulation and that one....the line is constantly dying and needing new life blood to come back, yet we're constantly told this is what they HAVE to do, to accomplish this for us. Well, judging by how none of these lines are still around, I'd say our gripes and complaints were warranted, yet we still get no mind paid to us on these issues? We're told to just "shut up..Hasbro knows what they're doing" ummmm, I don't think so, based on it's apparent lack of shelf space and popularity with the target audience they've been vying for all this time?

If they're p!ssing off the HOOKED fans of G.I.Joe, by doing things that don't appeal to us, then of course they're going to see poor sales performance in it. The kids don't like it either, so they gained nothing in alienating the hooked fans, by reaching for the gold ring and missing it instead. If they cut their sales in half by losing half the hooked fans, and didn't make it up with the "kids"....that would spell failure on most stuff, wouldn't it?

Now they're reaching for that "gold ring" again with a movie version of these great characters, and disappointing a lot of the old (unimportant) hooked fans, and I'm betting the same will happen for the movie. No nEW fans will be created and it strayed to far from what the hooked fans wanted and it will lose, lose, lose.

[TMNTFAN85]

such negitive thoughts--yet i feel different that it'll suceed......i mean these people sound just as bad as those trekies......and then star trek pretty much was a big hit. so you'll never know till the movie actually comes out. i am honestly tired of all the negitive crap. no use in talk to people who'll only ruin the joy of the film really.

[Viper Hunter]

TMNTFAN85, on Jun 8 2009, 05:19 PM, said:

such negitive thoughts--yet i feel different that it'll suceed......i mean these people sound just as bad as those trekies......and then star trek pretty much was a big hit. so you'll never know till the movie actually comes out. i am honestly tired of all the negitive crap. no use in talk to people who'll only ruin the joy of the film really.

While I completely understand the concept of "negativity breeds" and that negative people are considered Debbie Downers and that negativity is something to avoid and not focus on....

we're still just talking about toys and movies about toys!


This isn't LIFE changing in the same manner that other such issues might be that are more directly related to all of us on a more INDIVIDUAL basis.

Throwing around stereotypes and using name-calling strategies to shame and belittle people who complain about toys and movies about toys, like we would a RACIST or BIGOT, is about as lame and ridiculous as it could possibly be.

Oh my GOODNESS!! I don't like certain actors in the G.I.joe movie and dislike much of the overall look and feel of it, and I have to be shunned like a racist hater bigot would be, only I'm just hatin' on toys and movies.

I always thought girls were bad about all this emotionally exaggerated DRAMA about everything (I have 3 sisters that tormented me with such crap) but maybe the pussification of America is almost complete?

[Jmacq1]

Viper Hunter, on Jun 8 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

ARROW, on Jun 8 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

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I don't know why Hasbro can't just embrace that fact and stop playing down the importance of the old kids supporting this line? It's like they keep saying we appreciate your support but we don't care about you all that much. They wised up and finally gave us something that the fans were begging for (the 25th line) and am I incorrect in assuming it's been the most popular of every theme tried since 2000?

I think the reason why it seems like they say they appreciate the support but don;t care is because there's simply not enough of us to care about. There's just not enough consumers buying GIJOE product lately.
To my mind, I think the Spytroops product of a few years ago was probably the most popular stuff done in the past 20 years, because it had a great concept, had a lot of good product, had a sizable amount of peg space, and had media tie-ins. That's the best yardstick for those of us on this side of the fence---how much product has been showing up in stores and the space given in the aisle.
Spytroops had, iirc, about a 10th of an aisle space, at most, more than most of the lines before or since.
If Star Wars gets 1/3 of an 30 foot aisle, and Transformers the same, and GIJOE gets 2 pegs and about a foot of shelf space........then I think its safe to assume that GIJOE is selling far, far less than the other two.

The thing I think about though, is that all the while us consumers are b!tching and moaning about this theme and that theme or this style and articulation and that one....the line is constantly dying and needing new life blood to come back, yet we're constantly told this is what they HAVE to do, to accomplish this for us. Well, judging by how none of these lines are still around, I'd say our gripes and complaints were warranted, yet we still get no mind paid to us on these issues? We're told to just "shut up..Hasbro knows what they're doing" ummmm, I don't think so, based on it's apparent lack of shelf space and popularity with the target audience they've been vying for all this time?

If they're p!ssing off the HOOKED fans of G.I.Joe, by doing things that don't appeal to us, then of course they're going to see poor sales performance in it. The kids don't like it either, so they gained nothing in alienating the hooked fans, by reaching for the gold ring and missing it instead. If they cut their sales in half by losing half the hooked fans, and didn't make it up with the "kids"....that would spell failure on most stuff, wouldn't it?

Now they're reaching for that "gold ring" again with a movie version of these great characters, and disappointing a lot of the old (unimportant) hooked fans, and I'm betting the same will happen for the movie. No nEW fans will be created and it strayed to far from what the hooked fans wanted and it will lose, lose, lose.

And then Hasbro will try again, because they're a business, and "settling" for the "bronze ring" doesn't exist in the business world. If Hasbro were to reach the point where they did not believe there was any chance to market to anyone other than the old fans, then that's the point where they kill the G.I. Joe brand entirely. More accurately, they probably won't kill the brand itself, but they very well may re-market G.I. Joe in completely and entirely different ways that have no connections to the RAH era (or any other era) altogether (ala Sgt. Savage or Extreme but something different).

Even the line that DID cater almost strictly to the adult collector failed to garner any real traction with a new audience. It was the "most popular" with adult collectors...but it does not show signs of being the "most popular" with the general public or with the all-important kids. Maybe RAH Joe's time has indeed passed. Maybe the movie and movie toys will be a colossal failure (I doubt it, but it's possible) and Hasbro will dump RAH for good. If they can't secure a future for these characters, there's only one option: "try something else."

Of course, the one thing that folks seem to ignore above all else in these conversations is a very simple fact: Hasbro DOES know what's selling and what's not, and probably in pretty close to exact numbers. If Hasbro and the retailers keep feeling the need to "reinvent" the line, it's clearly for a reason.

So yeah, maybe the fan-griping is irrelevant, especially if sales of the 25A line aren't nearly as stellar as some folks believe them to be (something which genuinely seems to be the case, given the retailers' readiness to cut off the line after Christmas).

[Viper Hunter]

Here's something I've noticed lately, and it's that I see more Lanard CORPS toys on the front porches, in the back yards, around the sand boxes or even in the bath tubs, of people I'm around or visiting that have young children, sons or grandsons.

Seems the young boys still like tanks, and military stuff, but mom and dad call the shots, and unless you have a cool dad that played with G.I.Joe as a kid himself, chances are THEY (the ones with the income) know zero difference between the toys, and opt instead for what's cheaper and what's expendable if left in the back yard in the rain or ran over in the driveway, that won't destroy a potential retirement fund and good selling ebay item.

Hasbro has already let the adult collecting community influence the way they produce these toys now, and it's taken them out of the hands of REAL kids, who want to play WAR with them in the back yard, and f@#k some sh@# up with them, to putting them in the hands of adult COLLECTORS, who will either leave them in their packaging or place them on a display case or shelf and never expose these toys to the light of day, and I truly think that's affected not only what's being produced, but how much they COST, and yet we still hear how hasbro is targeting "the kids"??

Seriously....

What's the chances of seeing one of those $60 target exclusive sets lying out in the backyard somewhere, dirty, muddy and totally PLAYED with? When i see "played with" military toys, it's always the cheap Lanard stuff.

I think kids DO still want to have their army men to play with, but while Hasbro claims they don't, or that they're just not interested in G.I.Joe (10 X BETTER than CORPS) yet, they've re-fangled and re-invented a type of G.I.Joe toy that's out of range for purchase power from the PARENTS, who have the final say in the end as to what they buy for little Joey or not. Collectible items are ALWAYS over priced and yet that's exactly where hasbro has focused their efforts on this line. Is that really thinking of the "kids"?

If Hasbro wants to sell more G.I.joe toys, they better get back to basics (like it started out) and cut back on the fancy sh@# and just make some cool play toys for the kids, and stop vying for the bigger pockets of obsessed old fans, yet all the while disclaiming we're the real target.

TOY = kids!

PRICE = adult collector money!

[Jmacq1]

Viper Hunter, on Jun 9 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

Here's something I've noticed lately, and it's that I see more Lanard CORPS toys on the front porches, in the back yards, around the sand boxes or even in the bath tubs, of people I'm around or visiting that have young children, sons or grandsons.

Seems the young boys still like tanks, and military stuff, but mom and dad call the shots, and unless you have a cool dad that played with G.I.Joe as a kid himself, chances are THEY (the ones with the income) know zero difference between the toys, and opt instead for what's cheaper and what's expendable if left in the back yard in the rain or ran over in the driveway, that won't destroy a potential retirement fund and good selling ebay item.

Hasbro has already let the adult collecting community influence the way they produce these toys now, and it's taken them out of the hands of REAL kids, who want to play WAR with them in the back yard, and f@#k some sh@# up with them, to putting them in the hands of adult COLLECTORS, who will either leave them in their packaging or place them on a display case or shelf and never expose these toys to the light of day, and I truly think that's affected not only what's being produced, but how much they COST, and yet we still hear how hasbro is targeting "the kids"??

Seriously....

What's the chances of seeing one of those $60 target exclusive sets lying out in the backyard somewhere, dirty, muddy and totally PLAYED with? When i see "played with" military toys, it's always the cheap Lanard stuff.

I think kids DO still want to have their army men to play with, but while Hasbro claims they don't, or that they're just not interested in G.I.Joe (10 X BETTER than CORPS) yet, they've re-fangled and re-invented a type of G.I.Joe toy that's out of range for purchase power from the PARENTS, who have the final say in the end as to what they buy for little Joey or not. Collectible items are ALWAYS over priced and yet that's exactly where hasbro has focused their efforts on this line. Is that really thinking of the "kids"?

If Hasbro wants to sell more G.I.joe toys, they better get back to basics (like it started out) and cut back on the fancy sh@# and just make some cool play toys for the kids, and stop vying for the bigger pockets of obsessed old fans, yet all the while disclaiming we're the real target.

TOY = kids!

PRICE = adult collector money!

Transformers and Star Wars: The Clone Wars put the lie to this theory. Both lines sell quite well to children, despite costing just as much or more than "equivalent" G.I. Joe product. If kids aren't playing with G.I. Joe toys, it's because kids don't care about G.I. Joe. Sure, they might like "army men" but if the kids don't care where their army men are coming from (because they're not invested in the characters), then certainly most parents are likely to pick the cheaper alternative (that's just common sense). However that's driven more by the kid's taste than the parents' pocketbooks. If little Billy doesn't know who Snake-Eyes and Duke and Cobra Commander are or care about them as character, it probably doesn't make any difference (to him) whether he gets a Beachhead or a "Justin Case." But if little Billy knows enough about G.I. Joe to know the difference, and refuses the Justin Case figure because he wants a Beachhead...that makes all the difference. That's why mass-media tie-in is critical.

Heck, I'd place "The Corps" as one of the biggest reasons G.I. Joe has struggled in recent years. It's a generic alternative to Hasbro that's pimped by the country's largest retailer as its' "house brand G.I. Joe." It gets as much or more shelf-space at most Wal-Marts as the G.I. Joe figures do (and usually in a prominent place). Without major media tie-ins to make kids aware of why G.I. Joe and Corps are different, they likely don't see much difference, and neither do parents. So you're right on that score, but it has just as much or more to do with character recognition as it does Hasbro's prices.

Yes, price does play a part, but it cannot be deemed an arbiter of popularity when similarly priced boys' toy lines continue to enjoy success.

Beyond all that, you contradict yourself: "Going back to basics" will eliminate the whole "10X BETTER" aspect of the equation. Hasbro doesn't price their products just to gouge people, they price them because for a variety of reasons it costs a lot more to produce G.I. Joe toys than "Corps!" toys. Probably because G.I. Joe actually produces new product every year, as opposed to introducing a handful of new molds every 5 years or so, and then repainting them all like heck in the interim. You think repaints are bad now? Don't expect to ever see a new mold again if Hasbro were to try to match Lanard for price.

[Viper Hunter]

Jmacq1, on Jun 9 2009, 11:08 AM, said:

Viper Hunter, on Jun 9 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

Here's something I've noticed lately, and it's that I see more Lanard CORPS toys on the front porches, in the back yards, around the sand boxes or even in the bath tubs, of people I'm around or visiting that have young children, sons or grandsons.

Seems the young boys still like tanks, and military stuff, but mom and dad call the shots, and unless you have a cool dad that played with G.I.Joe as a kid himself, chances are THEY (the ones with the income) know zero difference between the toys, and opt instead for what's cheaper and what's expendable if left in the back yard in the rain or ran over in the driveway, that won't destroy a potential retirement fund and good selling ebay item.

Hasbro has already let the adult collecting community influence the way they produce these toys now, and it's taken them out of the hands of REAL kids, who want to play WAR with them in the back yard, and f@#k some sh@# up with them, to putting them in the hands of adult COLLECTORS, who will either leave them in their packaging or place them on a display case or shelf and never expose these toys to the light of day, and I truly think that's affected not only what's being produced, but how much they COST, and yet we still hear how hasbro is targeting "the kids"??

Seriously....

What's the chances of seeing one of those $60 target exclusive sets lying out in the backyard somewhere, dirty, muddy and totally PLAYED with? When i see "played with" military toys, it's always the cheap Lanard stuff.

I think kids DO still want to have their army men to play with, but while Hasbro claims they don't, or that they're just not interested in G.I.Joe (10 X BETTER than CORPS) yet, they've re-fangled and re-invented a type of G.I.Joe toy that's out of range for purchase power from the PARENTS, who have the final say in the end as to what they buy for little Joey or not. Collectible items are ALWAYS over priced and yet that's exactly where hasbro has focused their efforts on this line. Is that really thinking of the "kids"?

If Hasbro wants to sell more G.I.joe toys, they better get back to basics (like it started out) and cut back on the fancy sh@# and just make some cool play toys for the kids, and stop vying for the bigger pockets of obsessed old fans, yet all the while disclaiming we're the real target.

TOY = kids!

PRICE = adult collector money!

Transformers and Star Wars: The Clone Wars put the lie to this theory. Both lines sell quite well to children, despite costing just as much or more than "equivalent" G.I. Joe product.

A theory is just a theory (or observation) and it's usually posed as more of a pondering thought, than any attempt on my part to spew facts and all knowing information. No attempt to decieve anyone with my opinions and observations and questions, so no intent to "lie".

I don't see any Star Wars toys in these back yards either. Transformers yes, but not too much Star Wars, and the Transformers are more available at places like Big Lots and might even be some of the knockoffs?

I don't know WHO buys all these toys, because I never stand around in the toy aisles long enough to do a head count, but I'd have to ask WHO does? A purchase shows up as a purchase only and it's normally always an adult who purchases it, so who does the survey as to whether it's for an adult collection or a childs sandbox?

Isn't it fair to say that BOTH Transformers and Star Wars have a larger following than G.I.Joe? Not only with the "kids" but with the adult collecting community as well? Those two lines just "sell well" period, but that doesn't say anything about who is buying?

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If kids aren't playing with G.I. Joe toys, it's because kids don't care about G.I. Joe. Sure, they might like "army men" but if the kids don't care where their army men are coming from (because they're not invested in the characters), then certainly most parents are likely to pick the cheaper alternative (that's just common sense). However that's driven more by the kid's taste than the parents' pocketbooks. If little Billy doesn't know who Snake-Eyes and Duke and Cobra Commander are or care about them as character, it probably doesn't make any difference (to him) whether he gets a Beachhead or a "Justin Case." But if little Billy knows enough about G.I. Joe to know the difference, and refuses the Justin Case figure because he wants a Beachhead...that makes all the difference. That's why mass-media tie-in is critical.

Heck, I'd place "The Corps" as one of the biggest reasons G.I. Joe has struggled in recent years. It's a generic alternative to Hasbro that's pimped by the country's largest retailer as its' "house brand G.I. Joe." It gets as much or more shelf-space at most Wal-Marts as the G.I. Joe figures do (and usually in a prominent place). Without major media tie-ins to make kids aware of why G.I. Joe and Corps are different, they likely don't see much difference, and neither do parents. So you're right on that score, but it has just as much or more to do with character recognition as it does Hasbro's prices.

Most of the toys I played with, as a child, had no such massive media tie-in to promote them to me, I just saw the cool toys in the store, or had a friend that had something that was cool and I wanted one. Hell, I grew up with Black & White only TV and only THREE channels. I loved my little Green army men, and huge King Arthur castle and knioghts on horses playset, and never once saw a commercial for it. Most the stuff was picked out of a Sears Christmas catalog, and that was it. Hardly anything "massive" or TV show related and definitely no movie tie-in.

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Yes, price does play a part, but it cannot be deemed an arbiter of popularity when similarly priced boys' toy lines continue to enjoy success.

Again..who's buying?

We're reminded all the time of how G.I.Joe isn't as popular as TF and SW and there's more adult fans and toy collectors in those two communities to increase the selling power of the toylines.

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Beyond all that, you contradict yourself: "Going back to basics" will eliminate the whole "10X BETTER" aspect of the equation. Hasbro doesn't price their products just to gouge people, they price them because for a variety of reasons it costs a lot more to produce G.I. Joe toys than "Corps!" toys. Probably because G.I. Joe actually produces new product every year, as opposed to introducing a handful of new molds every 5 years or so, and then repainting them all like heck in the interim. You think repaints are bad now? Don't expect to ever see a new mold again if Hasbro were to try to match Lanard for price.

G.I.Joe has a lot more going for it than just articulation and variety of molds over the Coprs line. It has a lot more story and history to it and tons of cartoons and feature length movies and comic books. All the stuff that should qualify as "mass media tie-in" but hasn't done sh@# to increase the number of "kids" interested in it. "10X better than Corps" isn't a contradiction when speaking of how I think Hasbro should get "back to basics" with how they think these toys will appeal MORE to kids. All they're doing now is appealing to marvel action figure collectors, who want 20 points of articulation on everything and tons of snap on (fall off) accessories and it's jacking up the price of the toys to ridiculous levels, so much so that only the richie rich's of the collecting community can maintain their status quo in how they collect and save.

That's not very "Kid" friendly, and that's why Hasbro should go back to "basics" until they can shove enough of this "mass media tie-in" in their face, to get them even WANTING these (already too exspensive) toys to begin with, and then (after that's accomplished) they can start getting all overly funky and fancy with the style. Why f@#k around with a BETTER mouse trap when nobody is even buying the plain ol' crappy one yet? Instead of just assuming a more complicatred EXPENSIVE one is what they're waiting for, maybe there's just no mice to trap, so why invest in a better (more expensive) one?

[yojoebro82]

TMNTFAN85, on Jun 8 2009, 04:19 PM, said:

i mean these people sound just as bad as those trekies......and then star trek pretty much was a big hit. so you'll never know till the movie actually comes out.

I agree with that but this movie CAN'T be compared to Star Trek in any way, shape or form. The Trekies had to get over the fact that new people were playing characters they've loved for decades. That's pretty much it. That property was rebooted with complete respect for everything that's come before--IMO.

GI Joe? They're not even an American fighting force....

Someone here posted a few pages back telling someone to go crawl in a hole and pretend the movie doesn't exist. It may very well come to that for me and if so I'm gonna make no apologies for it.